david morris wrote:

 Quote:

I first of all have to come to the defense of the TOM ROSE school. In response to "corgi power" you are wrong! Yanking on dogs and making them yelp is not"what they do at the TRS". If you were there you obviousily missed something. If your dog shut down after a year that doesnt go back to compulsion it goes back to terrible timing and no motivation. If you think akc focuses on drive and schutzhund doesnt your wrong again. If the pup has a sensitive neck flip the collar for awhile then you can go bsck to it. Its all about timing , praise and motivation. If you have a working dog and you decided to go purely motivational you have a long row to hoe. The pinch collar is not designed for pain or revenge but to get the dogs attention and make prfectly clear what you want. If its to much at first flip it and show the dog what you want then go back to it later.Im sorry you gave up so soon.Back to "corgi power" you shouldnt say things like that about TRS ,like you have that kinda authority

david, first of all, you could get my name right. "corgipower" is used as one word. it is my alias, and i decide how it is spelled.
if you go back and read the reply i gave and go back and read the post i replied to, you will see that i did not say "yanking on dogs and making them yelp is what they do". what i said is that they give corrections to 15 week old pups. that is a fact.
my dog did not shut down because of bad timing or lack of motivation. my dog shut down because training thru correction is unfair. a critical stage of training was skipped. in fact, two steps were skipped.
the dogs walk in the door, they are introduced to pinch collars in a group situation. the pinch collar is the correcting phase, and the group is the proofing stage. but there was never a learning phase.
the dog needs to be given an oppurtunity to learn the desired behavior before he can be corrected for not performing. and the dog needs to be thru the correction stage before he can work on those exercises with distraction.
i never said schutzhund doesn't focus on drive.
"the pinch collar is not designed for pain"?!? no, you are just jabbing the dog with metal spikes. that's not supposed to hurt. the pinch collar gets the dogs attention by inflicting pain if he does not pay attention. food and toys is what gets the dogs attention without pain.

This has gotten way off topic so I am going to cloes it. I noticed the thread has splintered any way so we can follow the seperate threads as desired.