He'll just dig it up
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I had to brake Logan of that. LOL
Yes, most likely. I'll have to figure out something to put around it. Now that I can keep deer out (hopefully), I think the dogs will be easy. I'm going to start small.
Now with Mondo its most likely fear-aggresion both in and out of your property. That doesn't mean he won't bite, I think he will from what you say. You mentioned when he was after a person in your yard that his back was sloped? Some people see the legs out behind them (showdog stance) but they do that when they're thinking about pulling back not going forward.
You're right that I don't know how to read the subtleties of dog body language, and this is all after the fact, and at the time I wasn't really paying attention to exact details.
I admit that I am probably not being objective and am now trying to read too much into something that I don't know much about. The simplest explanation is most likely right--as everybody is saying, he's scared, and under different circumstances, he is more or less scared.
But still, I wonder why would he be more scared at home, and get progressively more scared there even as he is more and more comfortable, and when he could easily just get away from the person and go in the dog door, and at the same time not be very scared away from home, when he's on a leash and can't get away, and that part has gotten better over time?
I guess nobody can really know the exact mix of emotions the dog is feeling; we can only go by what body-language usually correlates with what behavior.
I'm trying to think of times when I know dogs were not scared, and were defending. Like when my non-aggressive dogs bark at walkers maybe; but they're not really even defending, because if the person came into the yard, they would quit barking and become very happy and friendly. Or Mondo, when the person is on the street, not in the yard, and he is just standing alertly looking at them. But surely then when a dog is defending, and the threat does come close, it may have a mix of fear and defense (not being a trained defense dog and having that confidence).
I don't know...
Sport didn't round her back, neither did Ali...sloped back means rear legs behind...ready to backup. Nobody wants their dog to be fearful but you need to realize that's what it is to help him.
Yes.
Yes that could be helpful but everybody here see's it as a fear-aggressive dog. Don't debate advice...if you need to tell us more details then do...we can't see your dog, only what you say. I've worked with dogs both as a hobby and professionally for 15 years. I've seen all kinds, used to groom them and handled more fearful aggressive dogs there than anywhere. Most were fine with some conscientious handling.
I'm really not debating; it's more like saying what it seems like to me so you can tell me where I'm thinking wrong, and hopefully put it in a way that makes sense to me. I do really appreciate the advice. This is all totally for fun and interest for me (and Mondo); I have done everything necessary to keep him from hurting anybody, I think, and I think he has a lot of potential since I can so easily train him in other ways. So now it's just learning and talking to people who like to talk about dogs.
Not that I know of...dogs can be territorial at home but they are always a fearful-aggressive dog. He can be territorial and fear-aggressive. Only if its situational, caused by abuse are they fearful of one thing or one place and otherwise be fine. Rare and clearly not in your case.
I think it's starting to make sense. He has a fear problem. It's really not that bad if he is not territorial at the same time (barring situations such as at the vet when he feels cornered.) If he is being territorial, like most dogs are to some extent, and the person keeps approaching, he becomes fearful. His territorialness puts him into a fearful situation. My other dogs, who are also territorial (?they bark at everybody that walks by), but not at all afraid of people, they do their barking thing instinctively, but then as the person approaches, their affection for people overrides their terriotorialness, and since they are not at all afraid of people, they are happy to see a visitor.
We always said about my other dogs, if they are barking, you know there is nothing wrong, because they only bark at people out of the yard, and love people who come in. Mondo is the opposite, so I thought he was more territorial. But the situation changes when the person actually approaches.
You are all right--basically, it's fear. And really, now that I think about it, how could it be anything else?
If he used it to defend himself then it IS a weapon! And if that happened then its made things worse but can't blame him.
It was that tablet/barcode thing that the UPS people use. He pointed it at Mondo, keeping it between them, so Mondo would bite that first. I could tell Mondo thought it was a real weapon, and kept trying to get around behind the guy away from it. Luckily the guy was young and fast, and he was jumping around all over the place. It was horrible. That's when I dropped to the ground, it was all I could think of to do, since I couldn't catch him. Luckily, that worked. Might not work next time, so I can't let that happen again.
(That behavior is why I thought he wasn't afraid--it's not what I would do if I was scared of somebody. When I see a bear, I don't charge it, screaming my head off and making myself as obnoxious as possible, and then try to get around behind it to jump on its back; I try to not let it notice me, try to be as non-threatening as possible, and try get away from it. Mondo had the ability to do all of those things, but he chose the attack option.)
First the others dog's experience is irrelevant. Second, electric fences use fear and they take more than 1 day IF DONE PROPERLY. You're supposed to teach the dog on leash first the boundaries, put flags up then gradually remove them, not a 1 day deal.
I know. They just learn really quickly (like, instantly, even little beagles who can't learn much of anything else) where the boundaries are, and if they hear the beeping (before the shock), they go backwards.
They don't like it when they get shocked, but it must not be the worst thing in the world; it's not like they get terrified. My old little hound dog is the biggest wimp in the world, but she saw a fox once (a neighbor told me), sitting and staring at them, and she ran out of the yard and chased it away, then went back into the yard, getting shocked both ways, I assume.
Clearly traumatized by the electric fence! If you don't want to believe it and that it has anything to do with the fear-aggression then you are waisting everybody's time. The fence is gone and so NOW you can desensitize his fears.
No, he hadn't gotten shocked yet then. The fence-line is way out by the edge of the yard; he wouldn't go out there alone at first. The dog beds are in the garage, with a dog-door. At first, he would hardly go a few feet from the dog-door, just far enough on the grass to go pee. I was staying with him all the time outside then, because I had no idea if the fence would even keep him in. He would only walk around in the yard if I took him. I'm trying to think when he learned about the fence; I didn't want him getting shocked in a new place for a while (for the reason you are saying), so at some point I put the collar on him and walked him around the edge and pulled him back when his collar beeped, and he learned it like the other dogs. None of them seem traumatized by that at all.
He's sticking close to the house where he feel safe from them likely...does he raise a paw, flick his tounge, pace, look away?
No, he looks like he's waiting to see if they are going to come in the yard or not, standing still, very alert, with his tail up. He will bark some times, more the kind of bark like my other dogs do, that warning bark, not the "I'm gonna bite you" snarling and fast barking like when he corners somebody, and his front hackles go up. He never shows any sort of appeasement-like behavior to people (except me).
He's not confident in your leadership, but could be.
That was really one of my main questions: Do you think that by training him in other ways, this problem will resolve itself? I mean the problem of me not being able to call him off if he was ever loose at home and somebody came in the yard.
You know this is not good right?
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Yes, I guess so. It's not like I fly off the handle all the time, but I guess I don't always control myself when I get really annoyed. (I never hit, it's not in my nature, but I do yell, and physically intimidate by stomping, raising my arms, etc.) I don't think I've done that to him after that; I realized it really scared him. Dogs can react so differently; the one I've had since a puppy, I don't know if I'm capable of scaring her.
My dog wouldn't react like that, he'd laugh at me. Your dog is obviously fearful and I'm not going to bother explaining it anymore.
Lol, yes, that's what my other dog would do too.
No, I do understand that he is fearful. I wasn't ever denying it. It just didn't make sense to me why he would be more fearful in a situations that he seemed to be able to control, but I realize now, he is probably not "controlling" the situation like it seems to me that he is.
No, none are dominant, just spoiled, don't worry about that. If a 15 y/o dog is spoiled...so? LOL
Lol yea, but I was just saying, she is SO pushy, I thought that meant dominant or something.
I realize the potential I have for spoiling and not disciplining, and letting an animal learn how to manipulate me and push me around (you should see how my cats treat me), but I realized that it wasn't going to funny and cute when I had a vicious 60-pound lap-dog with the capability and inclination to really hurt somebody.
I really do appreciate your helping me figure this out in my mind. I think I understand much better now. My treatment may be the same whether or not I understood, but it's nice to know. Thanks.