Also an overtired/overworked dog is far more prone to injury.

How can you tell how much exercise a working dog actually needs? I understand this will vary. It's hard to gauge when they are adolescents, always rairing to go, and impossible to wear out.

I want to see a dog that really looks satisfied. Good exercise, a regular job, good leadership. It's not just one thing, but all these things go together to create satisfaction in a dog. You see a "ah, that was GOOD" look in their face.

Sure, they may be ready to get up and go ANY time, and maybe they'd love to 5 minutes after you get in. But if you satisfy their needs they'll be fine taking a break for a while - even if it wouldn't be their first choice!

And it will vary from dog to dog what satisfaction is. I know for my dogs, I know I've done good when I see that "ah" look on their faces and then they're ready to chew on a bone or something for a little while.

And keep in mind that part of training for an adolescent is "chill" training. It doesn't happen naturally - it needs to be trained. This happens with good exercise, good training, good boundaries.

Physical & mental exercise to the point that Mara says...till they are ready to take a break.

With high drive dogs it is easy to do too much...simply because they are always ready to go. That doesn't mean that they should. Especially with young dogs that don't know enough to actually be satisfied & take a time out. You have to be the one to say it's time to quit.

Yes I had to train the rest cue to my Cody because he never rested! He is a high drive dog and has many things he likes to do each day, all at top speed. With the weather (lots of rain) this year, he hasn't gotten out much, and you can tell. Everything is over the top right now.
I am grateful I trained him the rest cue. Knowing he doesn't like to rest much, I try and keep his rest time short, and he does have a scheduled nap time each day. If I do not put him in his crate, he gets restless and can be a brat.
I have found that with high drive dogs, well with cody anyway, walks are just warm ups! So, those have to be followed with some fun play and running around the back yard and some training. He is so quick in his training, his drive just compels him! Working on social issues right now, which aren't very fun for him,he enjoys more activity. So we have to work on past behaviors with zeal to get a very happy little man. the Cody man is the black and white terrier mix in this picture. His little eyes (though messed up in this picture) are always sparkling with excitement and joy. Hope to get him into school to proof his behaviors. Right now he is working on fear of men.
Sharon and her pups ( seated in the picture-Terra far left, Bindi middle, Cody far right)

Yeah its not hard to overexercise a high drive dog too...I have to limit Logan's running with my bike even. He'll start to pace instead of trot from being overtired, but yet he still wants to go. You just find that equilibrium point, they're never going to be easy to live with, ever. Even with lots of exercise and training sessions each day....like last night I walked to my friends house with him, the entire time he is ready for action, head up looking around scanning, whines....not anxiety but drive!

He can be asleep and I say him name he'll jump up and come to me looking like what, what what? what we doin!? They are so easily turned ON but hard to turn OFF.

Could we explore in greater detail the concept of training "chill time" to an adolescent? This is so fascinating.

I have trained the place command, she is compliant. However, the entire time we get the "stink eye" stare. When given the release, it's like uncorking a bottle of champagne. I'm afraid we've made the mistake of playing with her too much.

make the reward for calm something calm with a calm que...if that makes sense.

 Quote: christy mascari

Could we explore in greater detail the concept of training "chill time" to an adolescent? This is so fascinating.

I have trained the place command, she is compliant. However, the entire time we get the "stink eye" stare. When given the release, it's like uncorking a bottle of champagne. I'm afraid we've made the mistake of playing with her too much.

Are you giving her something to do when she's in her place? A kong or bone or anything. If not, how about rewarding her randomly for staying there? Reinforce that spot is a good place then when you release her, she won't be so pent up in that spot. Try calmly moving her from that spot, don't make your release so much like when you're marking/releasing.

 Quote: christy mascari

How can you tell how much exercise a working dog actually needs? I understand this will vary. It's hard to gauge when they are adolescents, always rairing to go, and impossible to wear out.

What I do Christy, is probably pretty contrary to what a lot of other folks do. I never wear mine out. I always quit while I'm getting full, all out effort, whether its obedience or just play. If I'm just tossing a ball, I want him coming back full speed and the next time I take it out, I want him to be as excited as he can be about it.

I work towards having a routine and clear structure to settle them down. Its more a matter of them adjusting to my schedule, then me trying to tire them out. That may or may not work for you, but its something different to think about.