When to move on to defensive training depends on two things. One is maturity and the other is the grip. If you dog is mentally mature enough for the training and his grip is good and he carries nicely it is time to move on. Ed has a great tape on defense.

Ps. Growling on the tug is usually a sigh of avoidance but since you have a Rottie I did not mention this.

If you have the luxury of a helper you should always have a helper do the bite work.

Bite work is done in steps. After you master step one then you move to step two. As soon as you have problems with step two you go back to step one and work your way back up to two. Remember always end positive!

Vince P. wrote.
When to move on to defensive training depends on two things.
One is maturity and the other is the grip.

** Vince you are way above us, she still trying to get the prey drive bite solid, I think we might scare her trying to induce defensive drive, this early.

What I'd like to see, is her to sucessful transfer her aggression from me with the prey item, to the helper with the prey item. Then alert with barking straining at the lease, on helper doing civil work. That would progress and a light at the end of the tunnel, looking from the entrance.

Vince- Ps. Growling on the tug is usually a sigh of avoidance but since you have a Rottie I did not mention this.

** I was thinking for this soft Rottie that was good, because she pulling pretty hard wanting to win. Do Rotts have a problem with avoidance or growling at the prey item?

Vince - If you have the luxury of a helper you should always have a helper do the bite work.

** So my next move is to use a helper, this is the big test, if she alerts on the helper with the prey item. Then I'm in good shape. But if she turns and tries to play with me (I think this is a sign of avoidence, ignoring the threat, What do you think?) then she starts back over at step 1.

Vince - Remember always end positive!
** Great advice.

Don,

Using a helper does not automaticly mean defense. In this case you will probably have to start over or nearly over with the helper doing what you did. You praise for the bite on the tug. Then progress to the sleeve in the prey bite. I would not work this dog in defense or civily until the prey bite is stable on the sleeve. If you try to progress to fast you will end up with a dog that will only react to high levels of stress in defense. In other words it will ruin the dog for the work you want. I know, I did it. It has takes 5 years to start to get back to some prey work so we can attempt to get some directed bites rather than just defense training with higher levels of stress as we go.

Richard has proven himself many times. Listen to him. Sometimes I take things for grantet in posts. Richard is a better teacher.

I am in awe at how well this works. I had no idea what kind of dog I had. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I finally got started around the 12th and today is the 18th. In only six days I have been able to signifigantly increase the grip of my 7 month old and his prey drive is amazing. I would definately recommend the using the whip for a dog that is showing no interest in the prey item, it is much easier to spark the interest of the dog and once he starts going at the string drop back to the shorter string. Anyway, you all have seen the video, I am just amazed. For those of you reading that havn't bought the video BUY IT! It may be the best $65 you ever spent.

Schnauzergirl:

Glad to hear it!

Vince,
I also purchased this video, I read your post on this issue about your puppy being to young, how old is he and what age would you start? My pup is five months and I have just been working the building prey drive part, should a pup of this age demonistrate as much prey drive as the dogs in the video, mine will chase the ball tossed more than he will the ball on a string. I have a few balls in the yard when i am working him, should I remove all except what we are working with, he will sometimes get distracted and pick up another ball and go to work on that. I took this like he is reliving his frustration from not getting the ball I am playing with on this other ball. I will then work the setz after the drive building.

Yes remove all balls from the yard. He should be on a leash until older and more controlled. Watch Bernard’s technique with the ball. If your dog has the necessary drives for the work he should show improvement almost immediately. 5 months is a great time to start. I started at 1o weeks old.

Ok, Gunther is doing great focus wise, but I am having one small problem that I didn't see addressed on the tape and I am not sure how to "fix" or at least deal with. Gunther is focusing very well on the ball, to the point that I can touch his nose with it and he will not jump or try to take the bite, but he has an issue with "catching" the dropped ball. I am NOT throwing it. Just trying to drop it from about 12 inches away and he can't seem to catch it so that leads to a total loss of focus. In lieu of dropping it I have been giving him the FREE command to let him know we are done with the sit and of course he takes the bite. Is this a bad idea? Should I use the bite command instead? I don't want him to always associate FREE with the bite, but since I can't drop the ball for him I am not sure what to do <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Schnauzergirl,

Catching is a skill the dogs learn. You could try teaching it by using a different object. Try a toy that is a little larger and softer so the dog can get a better grip on it. Once the dog has increased the skill with that it should pick up in other areas.

I wouldn't worry about "free" being confused with the bite at this point. One the dog will not associate the bite on a sleeve/person with the ball. In addition you will be training the propre bite command in the proper context later.