Eric, I have been reading all these posts & seriously think it may be time for you to research a trainer familiar with dogs such as yours, & let him/her take the dog for training. I know you are doing your best, but it might be time for a professional to step in, take the dog out of it's current environment & work with the dog. I know you love your dog, & don't want the situation to get worse, which I'm really sorry to say, is a likely sceanario with all the veriables in your home. Perhaps Ed or others on the board can refer you to a good trainer with kennel facilities in your area. I know you don't want to be without your friend, and you are doing your best, but it might be the best, kindest & quickest solution. The kind of trainer I'm thinking of would take the dog to his own kennel, then once satisfied with his training, bring you into the picture first, then the rest of the family. Eventually, you would be able to take the dog home & most likely the trainer would provide follow-up visits. I think you have done everything you can at this point. I certainly don't think the dog needs to be destroyed. I wish you the very best of luck.

Taking this dog out of its environment and putting it back into it will do nothing. The whole family needs to know and understand how to live with a dog like this. It may be a good short term fix but unless the family stays on top of the dog and alter THEIR ways the dog will not stay "fixed" and will soon realize "oh yeah, they're weaklings. I can take 'em."

On the other hand, if you were to suggest Eric ship his family to a trainer, that's better. <img src="http://www.leerburgkennels.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> KIDDING! But I don't think it's a dog problem so much as a people problem. Maybe an expert on dog behavior and aggressive/dominant dogs can come to your home and work with the dog AND the whole family, especially the children. Once you fix the issue with the humans and the dog is still dominant and aggressive then the dog is either messed up in the head (unlikely) or too much for this family to handle (more likely).

I have to respond to "make" the kids help train the dog as part of their chores. We are not talking about washing the car, or cleaning the kitchen here. If the youngest child (daughter) in this family is passive and fearful with the dog, she will not be effective in any kind of training. If the kids are going to work helping to teach and train a dog, they must be calm and confident. Wlling would be nice too. If this kid has seen the dog "nip" everyone else in the family she could be fearful and perhaps feels threatened (with good reason it appears).

Kids are as complex as canines. How do we handle a fearful dog? Surely not by dragging the dog around and forcing it into what it perceives as threatening situations. That doesn't work with dogs and in my experience with five grown kids, it doesn't work with teen-age girls. Maybe it's time to call a truce. Maybe it's time to talk with the kids about their reluctance. I've worked with GSD's of varying temperment (and one little cockapoo who thought she was a wolverine) and as an adult, I would be hesitant to face-off with this young dog at this point. That does not mean I advocate killing all bad-mannered dogs or dogs with personality/temperment issues.

I'm trying to say, you obviously love your dog, but maybe he and your family would do better if the dog was in another setting. There should not be this kind of dis-unity in anybody's pack. Truly, your kids may have valid reasons for not wanting to interact with the dog. This is long and I am sorry, but it just hit a nerve. I've never posted so much before. We all care about dogs or we wouldn't be at this site.

Thanks for listening,
Ruth C.

Dianna, I agree this is a people problem, but it has gotten way out of hand, to the point this poor guy can no longer control the situation. There is so much going on in this household, taking the dog out the environment & putting him with a trainer who can reinforce no biting, no growling,no matter what with this dog, dog may do a world of good! Mnay dogs, once taken out of their home enviroment backdown & become easier to train. Especially in the hands of a professional. I also think the trainer can then teach the family how to handle the dog in a controlled environement (his/her training facility). After that he can reinforce the rules he has taught the family back at home. Right now, there are too many people handling this dog in different ways at home. I think sending this dog to a good tainer may preclude a bite which could end up with dog being put down.

 Quote:

......That does not mean I advocate killing all bad-mannered dogs or dogs with personality/temperment issues...... I'm trying to say, you obviously love your dog, but maybe he and your family would do better if the dog was in another setting. There should not be this kind of dis-unity in anybody's pack. Truly, your kids may have valid reasons for not wanting to interact with the dog. This is long and I am sorry, but it just hit a nerve. I've never posted so much before. We all care about dogs or we wouldn't be at this site.

Thanks for listening,
Ruth C.

I wish I had said it this well.

I didn't mean make the afraid child help. That one should observe and build confidence thru watching her father and mother dealing with the training issues effectively. A child that is afraid is not going to help at all because the dog will sense the fear. The adults need to help the dog respect that child.

The older one who's at the age where she's only into friends and teenage things should help I think. At least with praise and consistency. It's to her benefit, and her dog and parents need help. I've been forced to do things I didn't want to do, and if I didn't do them, (and with a smile!) I was in trouble and would be working all day in yard under the beating sun, in the dirt, around bugs. Not cool when you're a teenager. By the time I was finished rebelling I realized how much easier it would have been just to do whatever it was I was told. Needless to say, I learned to cooperate quickly. <img src="http://www.leerburgkennels.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> NILIF <img src="http://www.leerburgkennels.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

My kids were dedicated to our chow mix because they loved her, because they knew she would defend her with her last breath. So whe I helped them to train the dog, they were easily involved. Eric's kids may not feel the same way about Bruno. To them, he may be just "dad's dog who growls." If so, what is their stake in this dog? Why should they bother, because dad tells them to, and punishes them for non-compliance? That works better with dogs then with teens, in my experience (three kids 13, 16, 18).

In response to Jack, dogs do want to be the boss somewhere in the pack, and sometimes it as OK to let that happen among the dogs in a family, as long as they do not fight, but it is not OK if a dog growls at people. Dogs like to go for the weakest member of the pack, the kids.

you have got to be kidding about training the teenagers to work with the dog. they are afraid of the dog. the dog has bitten them. i agree with the poster who said this is not like making them clean their rooms or wash the car.

who is more important here? the children or the dog? it seems to me the owner is choosing the dog over his kids. no wonder the dog thinks it has a higher rank than them.

i adore my dog, even when he's bad, and i don't have kids. but if i did, and my dog bit them, that dog would be history. get a pet your children can love and play with. what is the point of having an aggressive dog in the midst of your children?

it doesn't matter how it happened, that he loves the dog, or that the dog can be worked with. the kids have to come first.

sorry if that sounds harsh and judgmental, but to me, this is a totally unacceptable situation.

I don't think he is choosing his dog over his kids. There are ways to overcome this. He needs a professional, who is skilled in working with this kind of dog & skilled in teaching the rest of the family how to act with dogs. Advise over the net is unfortunately, not enough to help in this situation.

I think only one was afraid, the other wasn't. I do agree with what your saying Alice. If it was my dog we would have had a meeting that the dog would NEVER have forgotten, and if that didn't work, the one way ride would have been the end of the story and I wouldn't have lost a minute of sleep. I'm not as tolerant as Eric.

I also agree with Susan that professional help is needed, but agree with Diane that maybe sending the dog out isn't the best idea. Bad situation all around <img src="http://www.leerburgkennels.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> It's nice that he's trying though.