Quote: Susan Shott

I understand the need for GSDs that are aloof or even hostile toward all strangers

I also want to mention that I can't see a need for GSDs to be hostile towared ALL strangers. That sounds dangerous to me and from what I have been told, certainly not what a LEO or PPD handler would want (or any responsible dog owner). It's my understanding that the dog should be directed by the handler or responding to a *threatening* stranger.

Just thought I would point this out while we're clearing things up.

 Quote: michael_wise

 Quote: susan shott

 Quote: howard knauf

OK. I can agree with that. But comments regarding members of this forum promoting the mutilation of children with dogs should not go unaddressed. I saw tit for tat. Jennifer's comment may have been unfair...but Susan's was a slap in my face. As an LEO and PSD/PPD trainer I take great offense to such comments.

Do you mean that if a 10-year-old gangbanger pointed a gun at you and made it clear he was going to kill you, you would want a K9 who just sat there and refused to do whatever was necessary to take down the child? If you expected the K9 to protect you, does that mean you promote the mutilation of children with dogs? That is obviously the type of situation I'm referring to. It's a sad fact that police officers sometimes have to shoot and kill such children. This does not mean that they are child-hating murderers. It's a very ugly world sometimes. My grandfather was a police detective, and I grew up well aware of that. I think police officers have every right to defend themselves when an armed child threatens to kill or seriously injure them. It's terribly sad when it's necessary, but it is necessary at times.

I have never seen something taken so far out of context before. We just passed ridiculous.

Howard, I saw the comment and admittedly tried to ignore it. It was so disgusting I guess I just hoped it would have gone away. I wish I would have addressed it earlier.

I hate confrontation. Especially over the face-less internet. With the invalid points and gross disregard for facts in this thread, this isn't worth engaging in.

Michael just posted what I wanted to say and didn't. So I'm going to address it now. The "savagely take down a child" comment by the Susan Shott, the OP, was out of order. "Savagely" implies desire on the part of the handler to see that kind of attack - and on a CHILD no less. That infuriates me. After reading the rest of the OP's posts, especially the one to Howard, the OP's posts continue to be confrontational. She's not listening to anything anyone has tried to tell her and is dismissing every comment, as if we're on the defensive. NOTE to the OP: these people are NOT on the defensive. Rather they're trying to make you understand that what you posted originally is without merit yet treating you kindly, but you continue to accuse us of what you perceive is the way it is. Well, you're wrong in your perception, period.

I know it's hard for some people to say when they're wrong, but if you can't do that, you lose credibility.

To Melissa Burkhard - your 2 posts continue to talk about the GSD in a totally negative light. You obviously don't know the breed so it's best not to belabor the aggressiveness you've seen in a very few. Because it sounds like you are trying to prove what is "your" point, about how scary they are to you and why. Point NOT proven, not at all.

 Quote: Melissa Burkhard

yesterday when I took Sniper in to be neutered a man walked in with a huge black GSD, gorgeous dog, and completely out of control.
This dog was barking and lunging at anyone and any thing. The man gave not one command to the dog to sit, stop it, knock it off, nothing. He was being drug across the room as the dog lunged at everything in it's path on a leash held too loosely and a choke collar too large for the dog that he couldn't have stopped it if he wanted to.
The dog didnt' act so much aggressive as it did fearful of the new surroundings and all the new faces and animals there. But the behavior of the dog certainly told me that without some intervention via some good obedience training this dog could become a biter and harm someone or something.
I was so totally disgusted with the man I couldn't help but tell him that he needed to remove the dog from the room because it was completely unfair to the dog to be put in that situation with an owner who couldn't control it!!!
It was a shame to see this gorgeous dog being allowed to act this way. Every dog in the room was shaking in fear by the time he was called into the back with the GSD because this dog was lunging at all of them. Just a bad scenario if that leash would have broke or the dog have somehow gotten loose. And totally the owners fault.

Just remember it is all about who is holding the other end of that leash. Being fearful of a dog based on it's breed just does not make sense to me. Being fearful of owners that prefer a specific dog for all the wrong reasons makes a lot of sense to me.

 Quote: Amber Morgan

I also want to mention that I can't see a need for GSDs to be hostile towared ALL strangers.

These GSDs can have very important jobs to do. I once placed such a GSD in an ideal home--a very nice couple that needed a guard dog to watch their used car lot, where they'd had a big problem with parts being stolen at night. The lot is very securely fenced with warning signs everywhere, so that anyone who climbs the fence to get in is assumed to be up to no good. The parts theft problem stopped as soon as they got the dog.

 Quote: Susan Shott

These GSDs can have very important jobs to do. I once placed such a GSD in an ideal home--a very nice couple that needed a guard dog to watch their used car lot, where they'd had a big problem with parts being stolen at night. The lot is very securely fenced with warning signs everywhere, so that anyone who climbs the fence to get in is assumed to be up to no good. The parts theft problem stopped as soon as they got the dog.

I am SO confused.......

Susan, you have gone from trying to tell us that we disrespect service dogs and that you promote the big, cuddly, party at my house Gunnars of the world (hee hee Judy ) to telling us that you placed a hostile GSD in a situation where there was no supervision and he was free to bite whomever climbed the fence????? What if a couple of kids climbed in there just for fun instead of with stealing in mind????

GEESH!!!!

 Quote: susan shott

 Quote: amber morgan

I also want to mention that I can't see a need for GSDs to be hostile towared ALL strangers.

These GSDs can have very important jobs to do. I once placed such a GSD in an ideal home--a very nice couple that needed a guard dog to watch their used car lot, where they'd had a big problem with parts being stolen at night. The lot is very securely fenced with warning signs everywhere, so that anyone who climbs the fence to get in is assumed to be up to no good. The parts theft problem stopped as soon as they got the dog.

I would hardly call a place where a dog is left alone and could be harmed by anyone who really wanted to get on to the lot an "ideal home".

 Quote: michael_wise

... I have never seen something taken so far out of context before. We just passed ridiculous.

Howard, I saw the comment and admittedly tried to ignore it. It was so disgusting I guess I just hoped it would have gone away. I wish I would have addressed it earlier.

I hate confrontation. Especially over the face-less internet. With the invalid points and gross disregard for facts in this thread, this isn't worth engaging in.

I have to agree with this.

We're not rehashing the ten-page one-year-old thread in which confusion reigned even at the time of posting, and wild posts like the one Michael and others have commented on aren't going to be tolerated.

And saying that 95% of GSDs in someone's locale are unstable -- come on.

I thought this thread started because of a perceived lack of respect for the temperament needed in a dog to be a service dog. The replies to the O.P. seemed to me to respond effectively to that perception.

Posts about PPDs "savagely taking down a child" or about using a GSD as a junk yard dog (literally) are so inappropriate that I don't even know how they came about.

Folks! Let's get back on topic before someone locks the thread!

Nevermind......I give.

 Quote: carol boche

a hostile GSD in a situation where there was no supervision and he was free to bite whomever climbed the fence????? What if a couple of kids climbed in there just for fun instead of with stealing in mind????

Now where does it say there was no supervision? The owner's home was right in the middle of the lot, the dog was noisy as hell, and the owners would have been out the door and running at the first sound of a ruckus. Any time a guard dog is used, there is a risk that some stupid kid will get hurt. What do you suppose would happen if a stupid kid climbed into the pen of one of Ed's dominant, protective dogs at night? I suspect it wouldn't be pretty. Does that mean Ed doesn't have a right to keep his dogs?

My original point is the same: It's great that there's such a wide variety of GSD temperaments, and (with the exception of unstable or mentally ill dogs), they should be respected for the jobs they can do, not condemned as "village idiots" or punished for being what they are because the owner wanted a different type of dog. Seems pretty straightforward to me.

And my second point remains the same: Police officers have every right to defend themselves.

With that, I'm signing off this topic. I have dogs to take care of, and the fact that so many posters are inventing things I never said and attacking those misstatements tells me I'm not likely to find any potentially educational arguments here. My dogs remain, as always, my best teachers. If anyone has questions about service dog training, please feel free to email me privately--I'll be glad to help.

 Quote: Susan Shott

and the fact that so many posters are inventing things I never said and attacking those misstatements tells me I'm not likely to find any potentially educational arguments here

Holy Cow......