No Christine because no one, not the Germans nor the Americans (work or show) want to see European line GSDs turn into a despicable creature similar to ASS (American Show Shepherd), who's best accomplishment is being able to gait in one direction.

What you need to understand is it is not as simple as what you may find in AKC. The GSD is first a working dog. As a matter of fact the SV has acknowledged more emphasis must be put on the performance test of the show dogs.

Also of course the over-all quality of the dogs at the BSZS is better than this country, including the performance test, or was that a retorical question?

Susan said it best,

I also want to add most people that buy showline don't know what they are buying, they think "shepherd" so therefore it is what a shepherd was meant to be. They have no clue that they are buying most of the time half of a shepherd...if that..

There is a show line male who has repeatedly competed at the National level. This weekend he is competing at the North Americans. His name is Jasper and he is bred, owned, trained and handled by Christine Gaumont. He works so damn well, most think he is a working line, but he is 100% high lines!

Yes, there is a male in New England, that is not only SchH3, IPO3, FH2, and represented the USofA at the world French ring. He is an excellent dog. It is amazing that breeders do not go to him. He is on my list of males for my females next breeding. The following is his pedigree.
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/447368.html

 Quote:

It is amazing that breeders do not go to him.

Not realy hard to understand. The vast majority of showline breeders have NO interest in producing better workers and because of the bloodline this dog come from would completly rule this dog out for the vast majority of workingline breeders, including myself

Thank you for this link. While the subject of good working show line GSD's will not be of interest to everyone around here, it's certainly a topic of interest to me, and I think some others. Maybe we should start a thread specific to "gene pool information sharing" so those who are NOT interested don't have to read it.

I too know of some lesser known show line dogs who IMO, have potential to make a positive contribution to the gene pool on the working characteristic front. Where do the smaller, but working focused show line breeders go today to find these dogs? (maybe there is an internet site I haven't heard of??) You rarely see them at a Sieger Show because they don't get ENOUGH credit in protection, and then end up middle of the pack (while V) in the ring.

Here is a dog that I like. He was presented in the 2006 NASS and (IMO) was one of the few males who showed all elements of the protection test - it was very obvious this dog is a capable SchH3 competition dog for points. http://www.vomhausmiller.com/Tim.htm A close friend of mine bred one of her females to Tim, and is repeating the breeding -she was obviously happy with the litter. She kept one back.

Tim competed, and failed at the WDA Schutzhund 3 Nationals last year in Peoria IL. I bring that up because if I don't, someone else will. I will leave it to others to discuss the possible reasons why Tim and many other dogs failed or withdrew from that event.

Anyway....a new thread perhaps?? I'm game... and Dee, I will share the link you provided with other smaller breeders I know, who care about improving the working side of the show lines. That's great information.

Beth

 Quote: Dee Clark

There is a show line male who has repeatedly competed at the National level. This weekend he is competing at the North Americans. His name is Jasper and he is bred, owned, trained and handled by Christine Gaumont. He works so damn well, most think he is a working line, but he is 100% high lines!

Yes, there is a male in New England, that is not only SchH3, IPO3, FH2, and represented the USofA at the world French ring. He is an excellent dog. It is amazing that breeders do not go to him. He is on my list of males for my females next breeding. The following is his pedigree.
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/447368.html

From my understanding Ivan B competed at the WUSV this year with a showline GSD. NOt sure about the facts.

#27 Ivan Balabanov I don't know lines but it is a GSD.
OOps, this isnt the WUSV, Its the No. American going on right now. Sorry

Edited by steve strom (05/02/2008 03:04 PM)
Edit reason: correct a mistake

Bob I am always glad to hear such things, but a few high line dogs that do compete successfully out of the ten's of thousands of working lines GSD's that compete regularly on a regional, national and world level doesn't in any way prove that high line dogs collectively can compete equally on an ongoing basis with working line GSD's. Therefore I don't see your point. I think your efforts would be better spent in trying to find out why, instead of dredging up the few that do. Norman

Norman, Bob has been training dogs for well over 200 years and i always read his posts so do me a favor and don't try and moderate someone with extensive insight. Idealism will not change a culture,
AL

 Quote: Norman Epstein

Therefore I don't see your point.

I don't see yours.




JKY