Quote: Greg Meyer

.... Kelly's comments are dead on and mirrors our experience with Bailey exactly. Bailey literally changed our lives. We've had dogs for over 40 years but all have been easily managed house dogs. Bailey is a WL dog with all the challenges everyone described. Things I used to do regularly like ride bikes, various hobbies, day trips, play golf, etc. are now dropped entirely or changed to make sure I can incorporate our dog in those activities or to make room in our spare time to just spend working our dog. Not complaining but now we spend our spare time engaged in activities with her, working her, running her, exploring new places to hike or new activities to try, and training her on new skills or types of obedience.

Also, she is not a dog to entertain herself. She is 100% devoted to being with us, her handlers. As Kelly stated, when we put her in our yard, she will hang by the door waiting for us to come out with her or to let her in. She absolutely lives for every minute we spend doing something with her and is happy to lay in a "down" with us until we do.

People around us remark about how much time we spend in activities with our dog and how much training we've done, thinking we're crazy. Looking back, it was nuts and we probably shouldn't have gotten her, but we saw it as a commitment that had to be made if we were to keep her and not have her turn into a neurotic bundle of energy with no outlet. Not everyone would do that and it breaks my heart to see owners of dogs who don't spend the time yet have bad experiences or complain how out of control their dogs are. Doesn't have to be just Mals. Now, I wouldn't have traded the experience for anything and am truly enriched by having her.

This is a great post, and this is what I believe that Kelly, and Cindy, and Francis Metcalf are so anxious to get across.

It serves no one, least of all the dog, to get these dogs into typical pet homes .... even active ones!

Again, JMO.

 Quote: Katie Finlay

Hm...

Betty, did you sell me a Malinois with fake German Shepherd papers? No, you couldn't have, she's too whiney

Even my not-so-over-the-top dog is much like Greg's description, including the constant engagement (or desire for it, at least). I think that it's true of a lot of the working/sport dogs I see. that's why it's hard for me to fathom that someone with a Mal, who is training in agility, could allow the dog to sleep and watch tv all day and thinks that 2x 30 min walks is adequate.

I've had some mixes and adoptees in my life, and spent years capping drive until I learned how to work with it. No matter how low-key I wanted those dogs to be, they all wanted to spend every possible minute with me and do whatever I wanted them to.

 Quote: Connie Sutherland

It serves no one, least of all the dog, to get these dogs into typical pet homes .... even active ones! Again, JMO.

I agree, knowing what I know now.

That said, I now can't imagine having any other kind of dog. We love her drive and focus and how easy she is to work with and train. After having Bailey, I have a feeling having any other non-working breed would be a great letdown. It's ruined us even though a nice gentle Golden might be a nice break. I'd miss all the personality. The happiness she shows after a full day's activity is priceless.

Wow. Not that I had any inclination to get one, but I certainly would not have time for that much drive in my life right now. I work way too much. I was just curious because I have been impressed by the few I've seen at the few SchH trial that I've been to.

I was gone all day today. My mom let the dogs out but they just pee and poo then they want back inside.

Dexter was back to normal after 3 short fetches. Harley was bouncing off the walls, ran circles around me, dash to the door as soon as I moved. Played ob fetch for a long time, then some nosework. Ran more in the indoor, now he is laying down but not sleeping yet.

They had a 30 min off leash run in the wood before I left for horse shopping. They don't have the same need in activity.

I just read this whole thread and I'm exhausted. Wow!

I was considering a GSD or Mal for my next dog because I wanted a higher drive dog than the Mastiff I currently own. I will be definitely be rethinking this. I guess I never really understood what a "high drive" dog was all about. Now I do.

Very informative thread.

 Quote: Debbie Martin

I guess I never really understood what a "high drive" dog was all about.

http://leerburg.com/flix/videodesc.php?id=238

 Quote: Debbie Martin

I just read this whole thread and I'm exhausted. Wow!

I was considering a GSD or Mal for my next dog because I wanted a higher drive dog than the Mastiff I currently own. I will be definitely be rethinking this. I guess I never really understood what a "high drive" dog was all about. Now I do.

Very informative thread.

Unless you're set on a puppy, go to a rescue (like Labrador, Golden or even Border Collie mix) and tell them you'd like a young adult dog with companion level energy/drive. It will have plenty of drive for fun training and will run circles around a Mastiff!!

 Quote: Mara Jessup

 Quote: Debbie Martin

I just read this whole thread and I'm exhausted. Wow!

I was considering a GSD or Mal for my next dog because I wanted a higher drive dog than the Mastiff I currently own. I will be definitely be rethinking this. I guess I never really understood what a "high drive" dog was all about. Now I do.

Very informative thread.

Unless you're set on a puppy, go to a rescue (like Labrador, Golden or even Border Collie mix) and tell them you'd like a young adult dog with companion level energy/drive. It will have plenty of drive for fun training and will run circles around a Mastiff!!

A 100 year old Tortoise could run circles around my darling great oaf of a male Mastiff!

Mama loves you Kaiser, but do come along old chap, we're losing daylight here!

When I bought the Pinker, I thought I'd lost my mind. I'd had many, many dogs, but never a dog that required such engagement, a dog that had opinions, that would absolutely come up the leash if he perceived a correction as unfair, a dog bored after the second week of puppy kindergarten ("how many times are we going to walk in this circle?" I needed Leerburg expertise to learn to manage this dog --- not just for one aspect of living with him, for all of them. Starting with petting. How to raise a pup you can't touch? Crazy.
Now we have this English Shepherd, 6 mos, 50 llbs, a working dog but SO easy compared to the ACD. HE SLEEPS. You can pet him all over, touch his feet, pull off burrs.
He might get into the trash (a normal behavior for a pup) he might chew up a shoe (also normal). You tell him "no", that's the end. Pinker would bring shoes, all the shoes, in an effort to manipulate a walk, or a trip to town. It was exhausting raising him.
But as Greg Meyer said, other dogs, now after Pink, are just dogs. Boring. My new pup is boring and doggy --- even though he's not, not compared to a lab or a golden.
I think it's the brain power, and the incredible desire to learn and do during all waking moments that's the difference.