posted by Duane Hull
Natalie;
Don't be discouraged by the gaps in communication. One of the biggest obstacles in participating in an open forum of this type is that there is a HUGELY diverse array of ages, genders, ethnicities, experiences and philosophies. Just the fact that it is about dogs creates enough disparity, as opinions range wildly.

You have a lot of questions (which is optimal for an active student), and when unsure of the reply, you present new angles or additional info that may thwart an advisor. Some of the issues you raised have been and always be disagreed upon in the dog world. The advice you are receiving here has been given umpteen million times, and it's a little shocking to continually run across people that either aren't aware of it or just don't get it. THAT'S OK! The process may be painful, but it's worth the effort.

I want to address a couple of your more recent inquiries. "Stubbornness" (and any other intangible concept or emotion that is commonly attributed to humans) is a topic that will always spark a debate. Some people totally disagree with attributing human traits to dogs, while the other extreme anthromorphises to the point where they think their dog can actually speak human language. Call it what you wish, specific behaviors can be trained into or out of practically any dog. However, you may train out some personality in the process.

Treats are phased out FOR THE MOST PART in FUTURE phases of training, just as corrections are phased in. You are so far from that point that I believe most readers are wondering why you are worried about that right now. In some ways, treats are never phased out. Even with a senior dog, I teach new behaviors using food. Parlor tricks are always rewarded with food, as is bringing in the newspaper and eating on command. My dog thinks she deserves a treat for pooping on command, but I've pretty much phased that out. Time and experience will sort all of that out for you. In the meantime, If I were you, I'd spend all of my energy on the foundation.

Steve, it turned out I'm not even close to the corrections part, I was misunderstanding the stage the corrections come in at.

However, I like your idea of training LEAVE IT and COME as a sequence. I will do that when he learns them separate.

Also, I don't think I like the idea of him only listening after I cue him in. I understand why you'd do that, I also struggle with the sniffing and how to tell him when it's OK and when it's not but I also like for any command to be listened to, whether it's down time or not.

I haven't been doing the READY and DONE for the training sessions. Is that a big deal?

Considering that I want him listening to me always, should I mark the beginning and the end of the training session?

Also, another question. Since commands are trained a few at a time there will come a time when some command is already proofed and other aren't.
So do I correct for those commands or do I wait until every single command is proofed?

Where I'm getting at is at some point i'd like to be able to call my dog off something and not have to reward if I don't have the treats.

"I understand that food is never completely phased out and that new behaviors are always taught with food and non urgent commands are also rewarded with food.

Where I'm getting at is at some point i'd like to be able to call my dog off something and not have to reward if I don't have the treats."

You will phase out most of the tangible rewards later.



"I haven't been doing the READY and DONE for the training sessions. Is that a big deal?"

I definitely do this.

Of course you want him paying attention to you all the time ... these are special, for training sessions.




I would take the new proofing understanding and use it, in short upbeat sessions, with, say, sit. You have huge new understanding of very important, basic factors of training. Time to use this.



No one can stop training until every aspect of training from A to Z is clearly understood. I know that after decades of training dogs, I sure don't have that. I never will.



JMO!

My pup is 9 months old. I'm way behind in his training and I've obviously done things the wrong way.

Unfortunately I've also corrected him, pop on the prong corrected.

"Control the environment in such a way that the probability of him coming to you is very high even before you start that activity. ... Also, you have mentioned that you call him and he does not come to you sometimes. I would first of all "stop calling him" . Take him to an empty room when he is hungry and have a fist full of cheese bits. Give him a bit of food and walk away. Do not say anything... Let him make the decision to come to you , but if he does, mark the instant he makes that decision (not when he comes to you) and feed him and move away , let him make that decision again.. train this for a few weeks till the behaviour gets stronger. Only after that you have to even open your mouth to command him to come. "

I very much like this comment of Ram's.