Thanks for the feedback Robert.

I am just pondering the mental picture of Robert busting in and "achieving evil" over someone's "azz." <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> No derision intended- I love the colorful wordplay!

...And for those who are wondering why the other breed fanciers are not as up in arms (over the working-dog graveyard that is the ACK) as the GSD owners are, you ought to take a stroll over to the working border collie message board. Never listened to a more.....um..... steadfast group of people- and that is a good thing.

In respect to protection trained dogs; I would never, ever leave the well being of my life or that of my loved ones in the hands...er, "paws" of a canine. I will take care of any two legged creature who has evil intentions for me or mine. (And, I have owned 3 Akitas and 2 GSD's over the past 20 years.)

Then, after I get done with them, if fido wants a bite, or if he gets hungry while I'm working, well, that's just fine with me. I don't want to hog all of the fun!

The sign on my door says: "Forget the Dog. Beware of Owner"

Not trying to sound overly macho, but this is just my attitude toward relying on "protection trained" dogs. <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

hi Stephanie
You are right about the different show styles in the gsds I bought into this same problem... <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />I love my gsds and both are beautiful <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />I think this just proves that gsds can do it all.... <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> I joined this group so I would not make not one more mistake.... It is <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> messed up. I was given bad advise at first but I'm on the right track now.... thanks Leerburg for your epods and free training.... <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Quote:
"Hell, the AKC is busy destroying even hard core working breeds like the Border Collie - now even that breed will separate into "show" and working lines. The show lines will be scared of sheep, no doubt. :rolleyes: "

...and walk on the points of their hocks like some of today's GSD's. <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

amaai this post has really grown
i just read a disscussion the other day on a german shepherd forum site, agrueing which was better, show or working.
I also had a look at the dogs in this years German sieger show and had a look at their progeny and their bite work, the top dogs did not have the best bites in my opion. The dogs are also getting bigger in size, males passing way over the 65cm mark.
What does the future hold for the west german showlines?
I was just looking at some pictures of my first male gsd from west german showlines (no longer alive) 10 years ago Kane was a well placed V rated dog. today would he be alive and young again, he would probbly only get an SG. The backs are becoming more and more roached, sizes bigger and the temperment....
There is nothing wrong with having a good looking dog, my current working line bitch has a nice construction in my eyes (stil has to be graded)but hell she loves and lives to work. I like a dog that looks good, but my priority is that it can work!
the german shepherd IS a working dog, it was bred and developed to work. but in order to be able to work one has to stay in the minumin of the confermation, i.e size, correct angulations and build. You cant put a ferrari engine in the body of a SUV and expect it to win the grand prix. the build of the gsd is so that it CAN work, not an extreme that it can't even walk properly??? (example: the built of a bulldog is not suitable to work... i hope one understands what i am trying to say here)
and yes, there are people that argue that the "working lines" are to difficult to handle... jee that one really gets to me... this is a working dog! If you cant handle the ferrari than dont own one, dont try change what is.
ppfff.. i really am standing on the soapbox this time
What are our goals? what is it that we strife for in the gsd and how do we obtain that? what makes a german shepherd a german shepherd??? something to think about

Well, Hell froze over yesterday here in Florida. I was at an AKC show finishing a CD on my working line GSD (also in training for Schutzhund) and stopped by to watch the conformation GSD classes. The entries were pathetically - or maybe, given this thread, thankfully - small, only 4 dogs. But the judge actually placed the one obviously German line dog over the obviously American line ones!

The winner had a nice but not extravagent gait. It had a physically strong look to it, like it might actually stand up to some real work. I would have prefered a more even, level back (a roach back is ugly to this beholder and I don't believe it is functionally better than a straight back - if it is, then why doesn't it appear in the wild, and why didn't sheep herders select for it in the thousand of years before conformation shows were invented? It's one thing to have a dog with a roach who can work. It's another to breed for the roach. Sorry, I'll get off my soapbox now...), but I was glad the dog placed first and was representing the breed to a most likely clueless audience and the American type breeders.

Too bad the owner turned out to be an arrogant snot with lousy PR skills who didn't want to discuss his dog. All I got out of him was the dog was, indeed, from German lines. So I can't tell you if the dog had any working titles. But kudos to the judge. It was a small, probably lonely, step in the right direction.

 Quote: AnitaGard

if it is, then why doesn't it appear in the wild, and why didn't sheep herders select for it in the thousand of years before conformation shows were invented? It's one thing to have a dog with a roach who can work. It's another to breed for the roach. Sorry, I'll get off my soapbox now...),

so now we'll both get off our soapbox

 Quote: ruth counter

Quote:
"Hell, the AKC is busy destroying even hard core working breeds like the Border Collie - now even that breed will separate into "show" and working lines. The show lines will be scared of sheep, no doubt. :rolleyes: "

...and walk on the points of their hocks like some of today's GSD's.

I loathe the day AKC recognizes Dutchies.

Diana: I agree 100%. I think a split would be the healthiest thing, especially with the AmLine dogs, they really are not GSDs anymore and haven't been for a long, long time. The differences are huge between the two factions in Germany as well. Maybe SV2000 is the answer for us working line folk.

Anybody watch the Malinois ring at Westminster this year? Wow. Big, gigantic, fluffy dogs and not a grip title among them. I went to the websites of some of the breeders of those Malis. They brag about not doing any grip work. Sound familiar?