Hey in case anybody has forgotten I started this post and just want to say that after using a combination of some of the replies and some of my own ideas I had a very succesful night with the dog that wouldnt out.The sheriff's dept. was impressed and the dog was outing without any stim on the collar halfway through the session.This was the first time the dog had ever outed with out any correction.Nothing spectacular but he was outing.Thanks alot for all the replies.

David

Did you use the method Jerry Cudahy described or a variation of several suggestions????

No I didnt use what Jerry said I felt with what this dog has been through I really beleived I had to take the battle out of it.I used what Eric,Doug,and VC said and modified it.I gave the dog a couple bites with a catch and slip and had the handler imediately snap him to the back tie (with sleeve in mouth) and pick up on sleeve till front paws were off the ground and give a long ,out with a stim at the end of the word.Then I started taking bites where Id catch the dog and set him down at the end of the long line and have the handler snap him to the long line(still on the sleeve) and I would make no eye contact no struggle, I would just slowly start wilting till I was on the ground and when I could feel the bite getting weaker and weaker I would tell the handler to give the long OUT and I would move away and give the dog a reward bite and slip the sleeve.Then the handler would go to the dog and retrieve the sleeve the same way he did in the begining.The dog was outing with no stim halfway through the session.This was something knew for this dog as he had never outed with out stim before thisI was pretty pleased with this and thanks for all that responded to this post.

David
Glad to hear you are having success with the dog. It is nice to see when the dog is actually learning something, because we have taken the time to teach him something. Rather then the dog doing something just because he was given no other alternative.

robbin:

Just a thought, had one GSD worked well,to well, broke for arms and collar bones on the running tackle, till the civil claims came, my suggestion abort your project, his next victim could be a child and i for one would not like to explain this type of behaviour to a judge.

The K9 police units in South africa has been at the for front of the news with badly trained and utilised k9. Passing a dog out to go onto the road or useing one that can not abort a tackle even in mid air and down, is a big and i mean a very big no-no, but you never mentioned why you are training the dog at this level, anti-terrorist dogs maybe.

We have rotties that did not want to out, no more siut or arm ,let him have the sausage for a bite and walk him untill he drops it. No encouragement
when he drops it we leave it and carry on with some thing els, then before closure of the exercise he gets it again and takes it home with him in the car kennel - just a suggestion that works for me.

Not sure where that came from... this post is too long for anyone to come in and read now. I think David is on the right track and has plenty of different things to try. Thread Closed.

Sweet deal David. Nice to hear a conclusion to a training thread every once in a while.

Bam