Judith - I am not sure what your point is? Did I miss something? or is this a case of you not reading exactly what I said? This is your first post on my web board. I suggest that you go back and re-read my article on corrections. Then read the posts I have made in this threat.

Lou has 574 posts on my board. His method of training is escape training (ET) also called avoidance training. ET has been around for 25 years. Lou did not invent ET. He simply uses that method to train dogs. In 574 posts he has done an excellent job of explaining his training methods.

I have written one article on what I consider a better way to train and you get defensive about Lou. I don’t dislike Lou. Fact is I have never met him. I have allowed him to make hundreds of posts about a method of training I have never agreed with.

If you read my article you will find that I said “escape training works.” It’s a very quick method to train a dogs. That’s why the vast majority of professional dog trainers train their client dogs with ET. With this said ET does nothing to build the bond with the handler and dog.

The fact is ET is old school training - 25 year old school training. My methods are a better way to train. My article is not an attack on Lou Castle (as you allude it is). My article simply explains why ET is old school and why my methods are a better way to train with a remote trainer.

In closing I have some serious questions why ANYONE would allow another trainer to take their dog and put a remote collar on it at a seminar. I too have seen many cases of abuse in this kind of scenario. This is crazy.

While we're on ecollars-any particular manufacturer that's better than another? I need varying levels for 2 very different size dogs. I'd rather have Ed's opinion or someone else experienced than take the store clerk's word for which will work best.

Ed,

Part of the reason I posted was to give an example of what I have seen Lou do with the ecollar. It is far more than a punishment tool. And, properly used, it DOES help build a tight bond between dog and handler.

You are missing the boat if you think the ecollar is only for harsh corrections when needed. The ecollar is one of the safest and gentlest methods of teaching a dog anything that there is.

You seem to approve of jerking dogs off their feet and stringing them up until they cannot breathe. Granted, the occasions you mention are extreme, but, in my opinion, such methods should only be used after all other methods have failed.

There is no reason not to turn a dog over to a competant ecollar trainer. In my case the first trainer I mentioned never got his hands on my transmitter. There is no way I would entrust my dog to such a person.

On the other hand I would have no qualms about handing my transmitter to Lou. Because I was somewhat knowledgable about the ecollar he did not take my transmitter. I used it under his direction.

There are several quality brands of collars (Dogtra, Innotek and Tri Tronic) Stick with them. There are cheaper brands but they dont have the quality. The cheaper collars do not produce the consistency of stimulation. When a collar sends out a inconsitent stem this is in effect sending a confusing signal to the dog. In my opinions its not worht the gamble just to save a few bucks.

Judith -

You seem to approve of jerking dogs off their feet and stringing them up until they cannot breathe. Granted, the occasions you mention are extreme, but, in my opinion, such methods should only be used after all other methods have failed.

Or unless you have a dog like mine.....I am a complete rookie when it comes to this business, but I am a person that does an awful lot of research. In dealing with my dog I cannot find a reputable Pit trainer or breeder that advocates the use of an ecollar. I cannot get anyone to explain this in any great detail but I have been stongly steered towards the method I bolded above, and I have to say when done properly, it was very effective, my dog recovered very quickly and she learned her dog aggression was not appropriate at that time. Again I am a rookie, but I saw first hand how effective this method was and thank goodness for that, just my observations..........

Ed, this is a very good article. Two thumbs up. You can bet your last dollar it will be copied. I suggest you put it in a booklet, with some picks, of how to, so that people can buy it, and distribute it at classes.

Valerie,

Here is an excellent article on what can be done with an aggressive dog with the ecollar.

http://loucastle.com/simon.htm

As someone said, with a Pit Bull, especially one that has been bred for fighting, one will always have to be on the alert for agressive behavior.


Ed's edited comment:

This article has been mentioned a number of times on this web board. There are other ways that work better.

Judith - you have now made three posts on my web board. You came here with a huge CHIP ON YOUR SHOULDER!! Your posts are filled with ridiculous statements. I am having a difficult time convincing myself not to block you from the board. Either change your attitude or go away.

For the second time I suggest you read my article. You have skimmed the article and absorbed very little.

The purpose for the article is to explain the various kinds of corrections used in dog training. It was not to list the kinds of corrections I use in training. In regard to a "Level 10 leash correction" if you took the time to read you would have seen that I said that it was very seldom needed. I suggest you not put words in my mouth.

Did you miss the part where I said using a "dominant dog collar" is a LAST RESORT? Did you miss the part where I explained that this method is used on dogs that the owners were considering euthanizing the dog if their aggression problems were not solved?

Once again how many ways do I have to say this article is not about Lou Castle. This article is about the Theory of Corrections in Dogs.

My advice to you Judith is to walk away from this because you seem to be on a mission and your next post will be your last if it’s filled with the kind of garbage in your last two.

Judith, i purchased the leerburg ecollar dvd, and nowhere in it does it say that "the ecollar is only for harsh corrections when needed", nothing could be further from the truth. Have you seen the dvd? You know, i was thinking about the "missing the boat" comment, and thought it was disrespecful at the very least. I don't know Ed Frawly, but i do know that without the knowledge i've gotten from the dvds i've purchased, and all the articles i've read,and the information from this discussion forum, i wouldn't be living with 3 well behaved gsds, that's the bottom line, AL

 Quote:

With a pit bull, especially one that has been bred for fighting...

Uh, does anyone know of a pit bull that WASN'T bred for fighting? Call me stupid, but I was under the impression that that's what the breed was developed for over years and years.(And I have done a fair amount of research on them and their origins). Judith, you make it sound like a breeder says to a dam, "Now, bitch, I need you to whelp puppies for fighting this time, not pulling a cart or playing Santa Claus, like last time I bred you."

Pit bulls get a somewhat deserved reputation for being dog aggressive, but I think a lot of accidents happen because people aren't as careful with other breeds of animal aggressive dogs as they are with pits. When a pit is involved in a fight, he almost always takes the blame, deserved or not. Pits are highly intelligent, and in my experience (foster care, sometimes over a year) they are just as capable of learning and respecting a hierarchy. One 100lb foster I had always let my chihuahua eat first. The one time the chihuahua wasn't home at mealtime, he left a little circle of food in the bowl, after I had to tell him repeatedly it was ok to eat. They absolutely need to be taught that dog aggression is not going to be tolerated, and they need to be taught in a language that they understand, the way another dog, or their mothers would teach them. And they WILL learn this way-they are very eager to please humans, in most cases. You may think Ed's method is harsh, but you have to consider the mentality of the dog. That dog is going to end up dead, usually after it's killed another dog, unless dealt with. Really, Ed's methods are potentially saving this dog's life.