O.T. post deleted

Edited by Connie Sutherland (11/23/2008 01:29 PM)
Edit reason: off topic

Janet, I'll save your post and PM it to you, so you can open a new thread on "germanshowline/americanshowline, and workingline GSDs," if you like. Thanks. It's kind of off topic here.

This thread is in answer to the O.P.:

 Quote: Webboard User

... My Rottie Kingston is doing good and he is now at 16 months and about 95lbs. He is a very handsome dog and I get compliments from a lot of people on how overall look. the vet even urges me to breed which was my original intentions when I picked him up. I am looking to start breeding after he hits 2 years old. my main question is, what kind of checks should I get prior to breeding? I know for sure hips need to be checked. his temperment is wonderful. the only down side is I have yet to get him any kind of titles (CD, Rally etc.). Finding a qualified dog here in hawaii is my other obstacle....

Actually, that wasn't a random list of great dogs.

Most of those dogs are in the family tree of one of Ed's last litters (Natan/Sage). The balance are from the pedigree of a dog owned by one of our club members, Griff. He is a Tom son and has been a working patrol/cadaver dog for the past several years.

Perhaps more to your point is Griff's dam, Hajen Dråbe. I've heard that she has been an exellent producer of good dogs. The dams are harder to get good information on. A good one will spend her career raising pups and not on the trial field. An owner will an outstanding stud prospect will seek out those good females if he really wants his dog to be influential in the breed.

Here is the full pedigree for that 'breeding'
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/para.utkoma?fadir=453928&modir=521664

A few years ago we had the honor of hosting SV Judge Wilfred Scheld at our conf show & breed survey. Bernard Flinks said the working people line up to show under him in Germany. He has an astonishing depth of knowledege about working German Shepherds. I was helping in the ring for conf show. One club member brought forward a bitch. Wilfred glanced through the pedigree and made the off-hand comment, "Too much Fero, makes a crazy dog." I grinned at the other person helping -- he had pretty much nailed that dog's disposition. She was very intense to the point where her bark & hold was more of a scream and hold.

Later that evening, I pulled out the pedigree of my dog ( Ron x Lucy). He immediately picked out a Kirschental female named Fenga as an important influence. The next day, after the breed survey, he gave a very excellent talk on German Shepherds and herding. We then took the Leerburg herding video and turned off the sound. This was a national HGH championship from ca. 1990. Herr Scheld proceded to tell exactly what each sheep and dog was going to do. It was, as he recalled, "The year the sheep were crazy".

One of the problems we have in the US is the lack of opportunity to see how littermates turn out both on and off the field. We often lose sight of the off-field part of the equation.

Thanks for setting me straight on what that list of dogs represented Charlie. I know there is more then one on the board that recognized it for what it was.
It's obvious I need some education in the dark art of reading predigrees. I've always depended, rightly or wrongly, on the breeder for divining the gold in them thar hills.

Is there a central area one can garner that type of info? Or is it all sequestered within the circle of a few? Have any of them ever written down their wide knowlege of the key dogs, or does it all move so quickly (dogs retiring, etc) that by the time it can get on paper it's close to obsolete?

Again Charlie, thanks for the help.

If I'm not learning, I'm not paying attention.
Randy

 Quote: randy allen

..... It's obvious I need some education in the dark art of reading predigrees. I've always depended, rightly or wrongly, on the breeder for divining the gold in them thar hills. ...

And doesn't that point out the knowledge that the good breeder -- the breeder who knows what s/he's doing -- needs to have....

I suspect much of that knowledge gets created and passed on in discussions like this. Often, over beers after trials.

Finding those with the depth and breadth of breed knowledge like Scheld is a gold mine -- he knows the strengths and weaknesses of each line out there and where that attribute came from.

A good breeder has a goal for his program and he or she will likely have the next two or three generations planned.

A perennial HGH champion, Manfred Heyne, had a slightly different take on concentrating his genetics. He would breed to an outside female and keep his pick of the litter.

Some interesting discussions with him (by Ellen Nickelsberg)
http://leerburg.com/manfred.htm

and on her website.
http://www.german-shepherdherding.com/

Lot of breeding insight in these articles.

Hey why not depend on the word of your breeder Randy. In my opinion thats what you are paying for with a pure bred dog. And doesnt that pretty much sum up why the replies went the direction they did? Without access to the right people Collin doesnt have much in favor of him being succesful with breeding. The one person he could go to (Kingstons Breeder) doesnt sound like he would know anything. There was no knock on him or his dog, he's just not in a position to jump into what I would think is ethical, quality breeding. On the other hand he has a dog he can train and enjoy and may accomplish a lot in whatever venue he goes into.

Gee Steve,
I thought I was being on my good behavior tonight.lol

(shrug) I rather started getting curious about all those odd names that got all mixed together and turned out to be my dog.

It'd be kinda nice to be able to parse something out of a pedigree and actually know what I'm looking at. I trust any breeder I decide to get a dog from, but whats to say more knowledge on my part equals less trust?

Point taken Steve.
Sorry Collin, this was at the expence of your thread.

Randy

Maybe I shouldnt have had a beer Lol, I meant to affirm your good behavior Randy.

do I see a "sticky" in this threads future? hehe