Quote: steve strom

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FCsh8vJfPo

There was no blood spilt, or trips to the vet, sooo, what's the harm? (ooohh, heavy sigh...)

 Quote: steve strom

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8J_rw8Y-wrM

Andrew, do you see where the handler is irresponsible and incorrect in his assessment of his pack's behavior. He is not only totally oblivious to their bullying of every dog they encounter, but he thinks his dog is justified in attacking when challenged. Of course his dog is 30 lbs heavier; his entire pack is obese, and that is cruelty, as well.

 Quote: Bob Scott

Mr Harris, you have thanked everyone for their advice numerous times and then followed up with a "yes, but" every time.
I've come to the conclusion that you're more interested in telling everyone how good you are, how well you handle your pack, how you're right and they're wrong.
Many very knowledgeble people here have commented on things they see, and you seem to always yes, but, and dance around the issue with less than experienced answers. All JMHO of course!
Your "challenge" pretty much convinced me of all the above. No real dog lover/trainer would make such a statement/"challenge".
I can only wish you and your dogs the best of "luck" in the future.

On the contrary as a result of some of the replies I received from the topic I now never allow my young female off leash at anytime and have noticed that I have more control over the rest of the pack as they aren't led by her over exuberance and her intermittent responses to my commands as was seen in the video with the horses.I will keep this off leash rule with her until she is as responsive as the other pack members;she is still in her adolescence and although her litter brother is much more compliant I now understand thanks to the advice given to me here she is just not in a place where she can be trusted and could obviously create or cause a very undesirable event/s and that as well behaved as the other pack members may be she has more of an influence on them than I realised especially now I can see a marked difference since enforcing the no off leash rule

 Quote: steve strom

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FCsh8vJfPo

This video is exactly what the bordeux used to experience because of the way she would approach dogs.The boxer in this approaches with too much excitement and is invasive towards the smaller dog which responds by letting the boxer know she is not comfortable with that type of approach.

 Quote: steve strom

 Quote:

It may seem to many that I look like am inviting the risk of something bad happen but it is not down to luck that nothing bad ever does happen

My A**. You're nothing but lucky. And the idea that the ends justify the means to you clarifies just how irresponsible you really are. Your alpha pack leader fantasys are an accident waiting to happen.

Look at your what a recall video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wto-Fjr9-x0&feature=plcp

These kids are nothing but a distraction? You're lucky that drool bucket didnt catch the kid at 1:15. What were you doing on the other side of the pond Andrew? Babbling that he's just fascinated with someones kids?

Whatever it is you think you're accomplishing, I absolutely hope nobody gets the idea you are any kind of an example of responsible dog ownership or that this nonsence offers anything worthwhile as far as dog training.

Perhaps more information about this video will clarify things for you.The kids and their parents (slightly out of shot at the top of the hill) are my brothers kids and dog and my dogs were taken over there away from me and then the kids who have met my dogs called for them to follow them away from me and I ordered them to ignore the kids and the other dog and come back to me as part of a distraction exercise especially as my dogs were very familiar with all of them and often dog sit for me with my dogs staying with them.I am not in the habit of allowing my dogs to approach or be with young children I do not know or that already know my dogs with me being so far away.

Well there's a surprize. It all fits neatly into a context of your choosing. I'm looking at a dog that looks nervous around the kids and backs away nervously when they approach him. Looks to me like he gets a little boost of confidence when they run away, so much that he chases them as long as their backs are turned.

I'm not sure he came back on command. Maybe the kid turned around or one of those adults you say were off camera faced him down. More luck the way I see it.

I stand by my point that you're an example of an irresponsible accident waiting to happen and your description of this as a training excercise clarifies that even more. Related or not, you put those kids at risk because you werent in any position to be in control or even stop something from happening.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXGVuWQZV1o&feature=youtu.be

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VzzyLSyAYQM&feature=g-upl

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pm-k4OjdnNs&feature=g-upl

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xVL-avI3yr0&feature=g-upl

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLQ9mVUE6lM&feature=g-upl

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVlIJE8kTQw&feature=g-upl

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDkVoevVJbo&feature=g-upl

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VzzyLSyAYQM&feature=g-upl

In the UK we do not have what you term as dog parks with multiple strange dogs running free in such numbers.All the dogs you see in the videos are familiar with each other either as friends of mine or people my dogs and I have met previously and are not random meetings which is why you see the same dogs in different videos like the english bull terrier (Molly) the cockerpoodle a spaniel crossed with a poodle and the old english sheep dog and the springer spaniels and the scottish terrier belong to the same person where our dogs met at an exhibition .You will see that besides the dogs that have met there together by prearrangement only one dog features that was a stranger to all the other dogs (the young staffordshire bull terrier) and you will see at least four adults in this video all in close proximity.The place where I take the dogs is a vast and varied landscape and you will never see the numbers of off leash dogs, shown in the dog patk video,running around together which I can agree is absolutely a recipe for potential disaster.To get to the nature reserve where the videos are taken is a 2 mile walk from my house which I walk all the dogs on leashes so as to drain energy and give them some work ethic before they get their freedom which as I have mentioned is not given to my young female for now since listening to the replies given on the forum she remains on a long leash.

http://youtu.be/AdmkAU8YK-Y

In the video above you will see if you look carefully a dog in the distance I was not familiar with so I called the dogs to change direction knowing that there was plenty of dog free space to go to and easily avoided any contact with the strange dog.If I was in the US I definitely would not take my dogs to "dog parks"

 Quote: steve strom

Well there's a surprize. It all fits neatly into a context of your choosing. I'm looking at a dog that looks nervous around the kids and backs away nervously when they approach him. Looks to me like he gets a little boost of confidence when they run away, so much that he chases them as long as their backs are turned.

I'm not sure he came back on command. Maybe the kid turned around or one of those adults you say were off camera faced him down. More luck the way I see it.

I stand by my point that you're an example of an irresponsible accident waiting to happen and your description of this as a training excercise clarifies that even more. Related or not, you put those kids at risk because you werent in any position to be in control or even stop something from happening.

http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u165/bosscat69/discover%20dogs%20earls%20court%202011/Image0234.jpg

http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u165/bosscat69/discover%20dogs%20earls%20court%202011/Image0245.jpg

http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u165/bosscat69/discover%20dogs%20earls%20court%202011/Image0236.jpg

http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u165/bosscat69/discover%20dogs%20earls%20court%202011/Image0252.jpg

http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u165/bosscat69/discover%20dogs%20earls%20court%202011/Image0248.jpg

http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u165/bosscat69/DISCOVERDOGS%202012/10032012028.jpg

http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u165/bosscat69/DISCOVERDOGS%202012/10032012016.jpg

You are entitled to your opinion,however if the way you describe me was true would that sort of owner be able to take 4 dogs each wieghing close to 200 pounds on a 2 hour journey travelling only by public transport in the pictures above you will see my dogs travelling on a train then on a tube train navigating crowds of people steep escalators
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7XbbA94-dg&feature=g-upl

and then being taken through more mass crowds and hundreds of dogs and standing on an exhibit stand being handled by hundreds of people,old young disabled and act calmly through the whole experience and then being taken a 100 miles back home on the trains and tubes .I suppose if you expressed that opinion to someone who had not seen anything from this forum and only relied on your description and views you had about that person they would say that the sort of person you would be describing to them would find that task could not be achieved by such an irresponsible person who has only avoided catastrophe by mere luck .But the pictures show exactly that task being achieved by one man and his dogs.I am not perfect and haven't achieved as much as others perhaps like yourself but each year twice a year we go to large exhibitions in exactly the way I have described and is depicted above

 Quote: CJ Barrett

Andrew, while I very much agree with Connie and what's being said, I also understand your take on this. It's called flooding and with the right dog, experienced handlers and the correct set of circumstances, I also agree, it can be effective.

It's a method CM uses a lot in a very controlled, experienced, environment.

With the wrong dog (soft, fearful, inexperience owners) or a bad set of circumstances with dogs not fully under control, this method can also go horribly wrong, very quickly, as has been pointed out.

Obviously in the Bordeaux's case, it sounds like it worked wonders. Good for you and great for all involved if that is now the outcome.

Just as an aside. The choke chains on your pack are quite loose and your guys interact a lot, especially the over the shoulders and neck grab. Does it not concern you that their mouths may get caught up in them?

Thanks for posting the videos. Interesting discussion as well.

I hadn't thought about the matter regarding the choke chains and I should look for an alternative sort of collar for them,thanks for the input

Thats all just wonderful Andrew, until that one time its not. The point of the dog park videos isnt for a lesson in body language. Its an attitude of some of the people, delusional.