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So, it seems that the method used to train the dog is weighted somewhat by how one plans to employ the dog?

Yes and no. If you are training for a specific goal then your options become more limited. You have to choose the training method that yields the best results. In sport it is points, in detection it is ability to quickly and accurately locate narcotics, in SAR it is finding the person, etc.

If you are training a household pet then your options are open to train however you wish, but that doesn't mean that the motivational route isn't the best way to go.

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Isn't it reasonable to think a dog with poor working drive wouldn't do well no matter WHAT you promised? There's not much there to elicit one way or the other...

If the dog can't be motivated then your options are very limited.

Long thread. I've read several references to the idea of "variable" rewards. Back when I was in college we learned about a guy named Skinner in Psych. 101. He discovered, through his research, that when teaching animals (or humans), you get the best result when starting out with a immediate reward every time the behavior is performed correctly, then every other time, and so on, until you get to where the reward is delivered randomly.

Oh, and contrary to what my kids would tell you, we did have electricity back when I was in school.

Are you talking about 100% motivation vs 100% compulsion? If so, I would have to agree, training a dog based soley on compulsion would make whatever you wanted the dog to do drudgery for the dog, and would not present as good a picture.

If you are saying that 100% motivation is the only way to go for all dogs, or if you are saying that dogs for whom compulsion is part of their training do not enjoy the work, then I must disagree with you.

Great post Jennifer...being fairly new to really taking an interest in training my dog, my first dog was just your typical couch potato, I think her only real drive was going in the car Bayley's alot more dog and training her has been more of a challenge. Compulsion training works to a point with her, but treat training goes along way and is easier. I don't always use a treat, a toy works just as well.

I asked on his forum how many people do any dog sports like agility and got very few replies. So obviously the training he does doesn't get into teaching more complex behaviours other than running around dragging the dog with you over obstacles. Sure the dog is going to watch you and pay attention but is he having fun and could you get him to do it on his own..likely not. Personally I'd rather not have to take the obstacles in an agility course with my dog!! I know I'd get stuck in the tunnel!! I don't think you could get a dog to run a course without the right motivator be it a toy or a treat. He made a statement the dogs doing agility get bored with it, the few trials I've been to the dogs are far from bored. Just watching the dogs going into the ring, jumping around tails wagging doesn't seem to be a bored dog to me.

Ok this is from Brad himself, I just had to copy this over here..now I'm kind of feeling like I just wasted my money signing up for his seminar!!

The text has been deleted here. As stupid as it is - we can't copy posts from other copyrighted web forums. You can post the link but not the test. The fact is trainers should read what this guy wrote because he represents the "STUPID OLD SCHOOL TRAINERS" from 35 years ago. Edited by ed frawley

wow I was surprised, I would love to see him go up against some of the people here...I know Ed wouldn't give him the time of day!

Patty, if you want to post that, please post a link to his rant, not the actual text from another web site. Thanks.

I'm deleting it. He did not write to this forum. We don't copy text from another site without a link and credit.

 Quote: Patty Macleod

Ok this is from Brad himself, I just had to copy this over here..now I'm kind of feeling like I just wasted my money signing up for his seminar!!

Wow...that's a pretty skewed perspective on training!
Can you get your money back?

(I read it before it was deleted)

 Quote: Lynne Barrows

 Quote: Patty Macleod

Ok this is from Brad himself, I just had to copy this over here..now I'm kind of feeling like I just wasted my money signing up for his seminar!!

Wow...that's a pretty skewed perspective on training!
Can you get your money back?

(I read it before it was deleted)

Aside from the cursing and ranting, my favorite part is the assumption that trainers who use food would be unable to train without it.