Yes, of course, the rounded end.

And as Anne says, it's not the only way.

Ok, I know I'm totally coming in late in this discussion but here is my opinion on dogs and poop.

I think some dogs just don't like to poop in their space (yard). And it sounds like Logan waits until you go out for your walks/runs and this is when he feels it's poop time. For whatever reason, he has conditioned himself to wait until the walk to poop. I don't think dogs necessarily discriminate where to poop - I think it's just when their olfactory senses kicks in. Or it's a marking thing - whether it be poop or pee. I don't necessarily think we can 'train' a dog when to poop/pee, we encourage them to go and when they do they get rewarded in some way. If they don't you can't correct them. So in my mind, it's really not something you train - but something you encourage and hope they do. To this day I will still treat reward Enzo for going pee on command in the yard.

As for correcting him when he almost killed you. I think that was bad timing all around, he was pooping, you were almost killed, you reacted with a correction, he (I agree with everyone) probably thinks he was getting corrected for pooping and not for suddenly stopping. And to be honest with you, I don't think you can really correct for a sudden stop; a dog will stop dead in it's tracks for whatever reason, especially a reactive dog like Logan. The best you can do is to constantly be watchful of him and when you see he's getting distracted is remind him with, let's go, let's go and get him to keep trotting next to you.

Okay, I am coming in late and didn't read everything because I don't have the patience to catch up to 10+ pages, but allow me:

 Quote: Tresa Hendrix

Ok Connie, today for example, I did not take him anywhere...he will not poop. I even tried the front yard hell I'd have been happy if he did on the curb by the road, tried that too. He may poop in his run tonight or just wait until I walk him tomorrow. I tried waiting him out before and he would no use the yard. I kidded about getting another dog to crap in our yard and maybe he would...ugh now it actually sounds like a good idea.

No, Tresa. You stay out there with the dog until he poops. I don't care if you camp in a tent overnight. The dog will learn to poop in the backyard. My bitch does not like to pee or poop outside the house unless she's marking (and she'll gladly poop over by other dogs' poop to mark). But I don't allow it. She's a competition dog. She cannot decide when she wants to go to the bathroom, unless she's ill and simply cannot hold it any longer.

She has a potty command at home and outside. Even teaching her in my own backyard, I did this:

I took her out on a 6ft line and stood on the grass. I said, "Hurry up." And I waited right there. I didn't walk around with her, I didn't let her drag me all over sniffing for her one particular place she felt like going. Even if she tried to come back and engage with me. "Nope, hurry up." Eventually, after walking in circles around me in the same circumference, she peed. Eventually she also pooped. This did not happen overnight. And even still, when we go somewhere she's never been before, you bet I'm out there sometimes 20 minutes standing in one spot while she moseys around trying to pick a place to poop. She eventually realizes that she can only pick a spot within the circumference of the leash and myself, because I'm not going on a walk with her and I'm not waiting for her to take her time and sort things out all over the place. She goes right there, when I tell her to. Now she goes pretty quickly, but still in someplace new she wants to explore and mark, etc.

This is a part of training. Just like anything, it's going to take time. I went out to the yard and back 4 or 5 times a day for a few days before she just went outside and did her business with a "hurry up" rather than run laps around the yard, look for possums, sniff everything that was there the day before, and THEN decide she wants to poop.

She's like many dogs that are particular about where they potty. I just don't allow them to be particular. It's got nothing to do with breed, etc. It's totally training.

I don't know if this would help with the pooping while biking issue, but if you're trying to train a potty command you do need to put some more time into it. Like I said, even if you are camping in the backyard one night.

The dog's mind might beat your patience, but his bowels won't.

Katie I totally get what you are saying. If I had raised him, I would have done exactly that from day one. When I got him he was a year old and I had no idea what I was getting into...specifics of potty training fell way behind just general dealing with him.

***This is what I don't know what to do about: The problem is that he is barely live-with-able as is with all the exercise and all (meaning extreme drive). Waiting for him to poop in the yard would mean putting him right back in the crate and listening to him bark all day and night even with the bark collar up all the way, spinning and making his tail bleed, being a real PITA when I take him out (drive issue not training issue, not separation anxiety just crazy drivey maniac I do know the difference and no I never reward him for throwing a fit). I'd be more willing to do this if I didn't live with or around other people.

But I realize the match thing is probably the only solution to help things along. Its just a matter of me getting over the awkward creepy feeling I have about doing that.

I'm not really surprised if people don't believe me, most dogs are not like him, they can be entertained in the backyard, even energetic dogs. I've tried before when I was sick and man I decided the bicycle was the greatest invention ever...got us through it.

For an example of his craziness: Lets say he hasn't been for a walk that day and I want to get some work done, so I play with him in the yard and then toss him a frozen bento ball on his bed. You should see and hear his frantic whining and growling as he tears at the thing in total desperation...and he tosses it up in the air over and over. Only when he is exhausted physically and mentally first, will he quietly chew on something and then go to sleep.

I didn't get my dog as a puppy.

To be honest, it does sound like he has some issues. None of the high drive dogs (Malinois and Dutch Shepherds) do anything like that. Have you considered something like Elavil just to see how it affects him?

 Quote: Katie Finlay

I took her out on a 6ft line and stood on the grass. I said, "Hurry up." And I waited right there. I didn't walk around with her, I didn't let her drag me all over sniffing for her one particular place she felt like going. Even if she tried to come back and engage with me. "Nope, hurry up." Eventually, after walking in circles around me in the same circumference, she peed. Eventually she also pooped. This did not happen overnight. And even still, when we go somewhere she's never been before, you bet I'm out there sometimes 20 minutes standing in one spot while she moseys around trying to pick a place to poop. She eventually realizes that she can only pick a spot within the circumference of the leash and myself, because I'm not going on a walk with her and I'm not waiting for her to take her time and sort things out all over the place. She goes right there, when I tell her to. Now she goes pretty quickly, but still in someplace new she wants to explore and mark, etc.

I have always used this method with all my foster dogs, most not potty trained, most not leashed trained. Get him running in a circle around you, this has never failed. I use it for my own dogs to train to go in a certain spot of the yard.

I am around many Mals & DS's, none are like what you are describing.

Katie, funny you say that I have thought about asking the vet for a downer for certain times (like me being sick). I'm pretty leery of drugs that are given daily like that one...but something as needed I would consider first.

Tammi, never tried the run in a circle, he would probably make me dizzy :-D are you meaning like they do at the dog shows similar to how they train horses?

One more thing, Logan is somewhat inbred...he's very smart but totally insane with drive. Most of the dogs in his family tree are very high drive and crazy....but not quite like him. Most are not dominant either and are softer. His pedigree is something like this:

..............sire: Juri.................................dam: Diamond
sire unkown, dam unknown.........sire: Juri dam: Que

HOWEVER the vet records say that his sister Ali is his mother, don't laugh!!! If that is true, its like this:

.......sire: Juri........................................dam: Ali
sire unkown, dam unknown....sire: Juri......dam: Diamond
........................................................................sire: Juri dam: Que



Maybe he is just insane. :-/

Like when you lunge a horse, once he is good at it,You can stand still and switch the leash from hand to hand as he runs around, helps with the vertigo.

Well that would be better than sticking a match up his butt!

I have a had a "sudden pooper" before (peristalsis) and the way we dealt with it was just walk or run the dog in an area where it was ok for them to poop until they did and then proceed with the walk we had originally wanted to take. If we took her in a store without doing that she would undoubtedly have to go in there. I think it had to do with her being a high strung excitable dog.
One of our dogs now will poop on trees and bushes if thats the only cover thats available but its because he prefers high grass.

So here is my idea (just throwing it out there) why not try triggering peristalsis in your yard and "wait the dog out" that way? Because I understand that a dog might hold it days if it was motivated to, but if it literally cant stop itself from pooping when being exercised you could use that to your advantage.

And thats interesting about Danni, Katie, because Nikita is the exact same way, I had to do some hardcore work on that while she was young.