Hi
I have a 5 year old male GSD that I got about 3 years ago he is a big boy but is all skin and bones I kept commenting to the vet that he was loosing weight but eating 6-8 cups of food per day-pedigree dry is the only food he will nto growl at me over so that is what he gets. I have tried others royal canine. iams. eukanuba, biljac etc but he would growl at me and I would not tollerate it with kids in the house etc. anyway finially got the vet to test his enzyme levels and he said they were very low so he is now on viocase -pills 2 2xper day. We have been doing this for about 8 months now. I took him off the pills as he was starting to eat EVERYTHING in the house-book bags were being torn apart anything on the counter was not safe etc. His latest thing that has me worried is he is eating toilet paper right off the roll and taking the roll and dragging it around the house-the end of it laying down and chewing it -he is getting aggressive over the tissue! It is like he is not even recognizing me -he did this to the kids and my husband also-he is my dog and is usually submissive especially when he does something wrong but he is now challenging me and my husband over tissue! I have walked away and come back clapping and yelling and he drops it and comes and pees on the floor at my feet rolling to his back. But it is taking him longer to recall or recognize me. When I get his attention I have him come and place and sit and down a few times and he does the obedience just fine. This started a few months ago and I just thought he was having a bad day but it is getting worse.
anyone have any experience with this? I am going ot call the vet next week -after the holiday. I am keeping him caged or tied up in the house as I do not want anyone to get hurt and nothing is safe. He was out tonight while I cooked dinner and kept coming in and sniffing but I would just snap my fingers and he would back off and go into the other room. I have been free feeding him since this medical condition started but he does not eat all the food.
Any ideas? A friend said maybe his kidneys are shutting down and he is having some memory lapse problems because of it.
I love this dog but the safety of my family will come first any ideas would be great
thanks
diane

Some things you could try until someone who knows more than I posts with some real answers.

Go to Ed's main site and read and take notes on EVERYTHING on dominance, aggressive dogs, and the feeding section.

Go to Cindy's site and read her article on dog food. (it might help you make some descisions on what you feed)

I would try feeding him twice a day in his kennel AWAY from everyone for a while till you figure out what is going on.

You could put tuna or gravy over his food to make it more yummy. I think the reason that he wasn't groweling at you with this food, was prob that it wasn't worth it in his eyes. After 20 min take it up. It can take a few weeks for them to get the message that they better eat up when the food is near them.
I don't think that it was all that unusal that he was food aggressive over his meal as he was literally starving because his body wasn't absorbing the nutrients.

As soon as you possibly can have him go to a good vet and have him checked from top to bottom. There are lots of "hidden" conditions that could be causing his behavior form pain. Spondelosis sp? is one you would have no idea that he had at first, but could be making him hurt.
If he is fine then it sounds like you might have a high drive dog that is really bored.
Just because he is submissive to you dosent mean that he is to the rest of the family. I have also run into dogs that are dominant but weak nerved and these combined with high drive are rather dificult for the average person to deal with, with out some hard core education.
Untill you get the results back from the vet treat him like a 5 month old puppy and don't let him out of your sight. clip his leash to your belt or have him in the kennel unless you are playing with him. (don't let the leash drag in the house if it is a regular leash with a handle on it, as his leg or furniture could get caught in it)

Pre order Ed's dominant dog video.

I had a K9 with this disorder . I would put him back on the Viocase if I were you . They are pig enzymes that replace your dog's enzymes in order to digest the food .

Just my opinion but the dog may be getting aggressive and eating toilet paper and such , because he is extremely hungry and not getting enough from his food . Mine went from having a moderate appetite before the onset of PI to just plan out starving for food . He did get food aggressive . PI hit him at about 4 YOA . His food aggression mellowed after I got his food intake / enzyme supplement balance right .

The trick with the pig enzymes is being able to balance the right amount of food so the enzymes can aid in digestion . Too much food with the enzymes and the dog just squirts it out and gets nothing out of his food .

I initially had alot of problems getting it right . I would give the dog the pill or put it in the food and it didn't work very well .

What finally worked for me was feeding 3 times a days , wetting the food , grinding the enzymes and spreading it over the food . I would then mix it up and let it sit for 10-15 minutes to let the enzymes activate (vet's advice). I constantly monitored the dog . If his stoles started getting soft I would back off a little on the amount of food keeping the amount of enzymes the same .

I fed my dog (80-85 pound GSD) on average 3-4 cups of food 3 times a day . He was a Police K9 and burned up alot of energy everyday and needed alot of food to keep working . I fed him a 50/50 mix of perscription Science Diet WD (it's a low fat dry dogfood but easy on the stomach) . The other half of his dogfood was Nutro Large Breed Adult to give him some added calories to keep some weight on . His stoles were nice and solid when feeding just Science Diet WD but he was still very skinny . The Nutro put some weight back on him .

as for the food aggression I think everyone(food aggression or not) should feed there dogs in an area away from everyone else . Feed the dog in it's crate or a seperate secure room , give the dog it's food , leave and keep others away from him . Give the dog about 10 mns to eat then go back and put the bowl away . Good Luck .

Jim, good catch on the part about taking him off the meds.
Diane, Jim is right. the dog is starving literally now. He can't absorb the nutrients from his food. The aggression is from him being starved and wanting to eat everything in site. Anything that could be a food item is worth guarding in his mind and will prob be even after he gets to his full weight.
Our dog had the same thing and what out vet said to do was give him three of the pills 20 min before we gave him his. It worked fine. they said it would take a few days to clear up the messy stools. We fed him boiled chicken and rice at a ratio of 2pts rice to 1 pt chicken for about 2 weeks and slowly introduced the kibble.
He was a big dog and when he was really thin, you could feel every bone in his spine, he weighed 80 lbs. He ideal weight was 100 lbs.
We gave him about 4 cups of food a feeding and feed 2x a day.

how is PI diagnosed? blood test?

 Quote:

how is PI diagnosed? blood test?

Yes, generally after fecal tests to exclude other conditions that have similar symptoms.

Here's the usual diagnostic protocol:

http://www.petplace.com/article.aspx?id=144&cid=15982

Thanks for all the advice after posting here last night I found a yahoo group with over 500 members all of who have dogs with this condition. They to said he is starving to death and the food aggression is common at this point because he is trying to survive. My vet had us using 2 tablets of viocase per meal and that was not enough as many have stated on the group It is suggested I switch to powdered enzymes as they work better. Put them on the food and let it sit with some water mix well as the enzymes need to cover the food to be digested. I fed him 3 times today 2 cups each time and 7 viocase tablets per meal -still may not be enough they were crushed and let it sit for 20 minutes-drove the dog crazy while he was waiting. Acording to the folks in the group they said I should see a difference in 3-4 days! I also contacted the vet and got his test results his TLI-whish is the blood test after fasting that they use-to answer the question posted earlier was only .3 normal is 5-35 with 2.5 being concidered EPI. They also tested for cobalamin and it was 99 which should have been 249-733 so it was suggested by someone on the group to take him for B12 shots to aid digestion. His folate was 15.5 when normal is 6.5-11.5

Confussing huh? I am slowly learning about this between the reading I did last night and the reading I did today.

I am starting a slow switch in food to proplan senior chicken and rice as a low fiber diet is recomended and it is low in fat also which is a plus.

With everythign I have found out by posting here and on the group I have printed things out and will be calling the vet in the AM to make an appointment and take him in if there is a problem I will be looking for a new vet. From what I hear not many vets know much about this and all dogs are different so there is no cut and dry fix.

Tonight I fed Sarge some food off a spoon which he ate with love and wagging his tail. I then had him sit and put the food down I talk to him for a while while he was eating but he does not want to be bothered he just wants to eat.

I really am leaning more to a starvation issue than an aggression issue at this time which is a relief. This was common with dogs that have this disease untill it is stabalized. I am hoping that once I get him stabalized I can get back into training as he is so eager to please-when he is feeling good.

If anyone comes across this post I hope they look up the yahoo group epiglobal. I wish I had found it 8 months ago.

thanks for all the advise and wish us luck!
diane