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Will, I'm with you on this, but wanted to know if you woudl also include the Dutchies with the GSD's & Mals. I have no personal experience with them, but from what I've read & seen, maybe they get to be included? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

I'd be interested to know where rottweilers fit into this discussion? Mastiff-type or herding?

Is your post directed to me even though you responded to Jonathans? In case that it is:

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I am not sure if you realize just how many dogs can be "run" or if we even have the same terminology. I would love to see, and I am sure Will would to, an off breed do well as a whole with all the claims that are made.

The biggest reason I would cry BS on your whole mastiff PP adventure, is that having worked dogs for over twenty years, the look on my clients faces who read about the "one" out of the whole breed that worked, and all the other fantasies breeders put out there. It is miserable for me to have to show these people that their dog WILL NOT PROTECT THEM. I absolutely want to be proven wrong, but it's not going to happen.

All I keep hearing is how mastiffs won't protect, so by now I realize there are crappers in the breeds. I hear it all over the place. That's part of the reason why I imported a cross breed.

Could you please tell me which part of my 'mastiff PP adventure' that you find to be bs, so I can answer you accordingly, and if in fact this is directed at me?

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I absolutely want to be proven wrong, but it's not going to happen.

Is what you're saying that NO mastiff out of any of the mastiff breeds will protect? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

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Don't feel the need, but continue on this long tradition of falsehoods.

I don't know what to tell you. People should be breeding better dogs and testing them <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

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and I will take out my frustration on anyone that thinks they can tell me these dogs are natural guardians.

Is this directed at me? These dogs SHOULD be natural guardians that need only direction and acclimation to the job of protecting. JMO. I'm not going to excuse poor breeding practices because I agree with you.

Definition of attempt to "run"- the largest amount of pressure that could be encountered in real life, within reason. Crazy psychotic attacker on drugs who's not afraid of the dog.

Joe,
Rott's have been selectively bred for their protective ability for so long that they don't belong to the Mastiff family any more , at least from their behavior.

And they were used to herd during a historical period ( at least in the days of the Romans ). Their behavior is more herding dog like than Mastiff like.

Barbara, I understand that you think that, the ones that came thru were from BB yard breeders they weren't. The temperaments just aren't stable enough for me, they are not as popular here anymore (SA) and I hear of more of these being rehomed then most other breeds, they are really not easy dogs to handle, they need a firm hand, they can be willful and stubborn.A friend of mine used to train them for PP said that after testing them in all scenarios the Boerboel's came up lowest compared to other breeds doing the same test.These were real life enacted situations, like body assault a hijacking etc..
One or two club members tried the PP route, gave up in sheer
frustration.I understand you have tested yours and are happy,I do not know Mr Geel, and his experience may be postive with the breed, but the majority of feedback I have had on the breed has been negative for PP work. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Michelle, I don't have boerboels or an interest in obtaining them, I'm only relaying what I've heard from people in SA, Madagascar and other enthusiasts. The only reason I even got involved in this thread was because someone new posted a picture of their dog <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Luke, I look forward to hearing about your new Boxer. I've always loved the breed. Don't forget to post pictures. As far as grammer is concerned, I wish I had paid more attention when I was in school (back in the dark ages) <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Oh I must have my wires crossed because of your description of the drug crazed neighbourhood explanation and how you would walk down to the beach etc, how good and safe you felt with your dog at your side, ok then <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

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Joe,
Rott's have been selectively bred for their protective ability for so long that they don't belong to the Mastiff family any more , at least from their behavior.

And they were used to herd during a historical period ( at least in the days of the Romans ). Their behavior is more herding dog like than Mastiff like.

That is kind of what I was thinking. Certainly more typical mastiff than herder in appearance. Certainly molossar. But, historically cross trained in herding. Oh well, I guess we'll just have to settle for an identity crisis and go back to pulling a cart and guarding teh butcher's change purse.

I am closing this thread. I posted my thoughts on the Cane thread that - I agree with Will. The VAST MAJORITY of these dogs are far more of a visual deterant than and serious working dog. Of course there are always acceptions - but not many. I wont allow the opinions of a few pet owners effect the facts.