I've got a question. From what I've understood of everything you've written so far, Eric, the dog seems to have a lot of freedom of movement. My understanding of what I've read is that the crate is mostly for feeding time and apart from that the dog can choose where to be. My question is: why does the dog have so much freedom of movement?

I'm thinking that at this stage of the dog's training and your family's relationship with said dog, that it sets up more opportunity for needless conflict than can be controlled and just leads to setbacks and tensions. You're clearly committed to getting a dog you all can live with and that's commendable, but I'm wondering if you wouldn't be better off putting the dog in an outside kennel and run (if building a secure one is an option for you) or at least crating it a whole lot more.

If you did that, then you would be able to go to the dog and work with him entirely on your terms and get him to an excellent understanding of how the ecollar works and get a good grip on his obedience. It'd be a more positive and focussed experience as the dog would have no opportunity to be in trouble. If I understand correctly, you work from home and if so, you'd be able to work in several short lessons into your day. Then you could teach your family members one by one to work and enforce those commands in that controlled situation which would give them much more control, understanding and confidence than a situation in which someone just wanting a drink of water is faced by a growling dog and a growling father at the same time.

Then, under control, over several weeks, the dog could be allowed to earn more and more freedom of movement inside the house. He's going to be part of the family for the next ten years -- a few weeks relearning his place isn't the end of the world.

Just a thought.

I've been reading through this thread with interest. It's very welcome to see someone who is willing to spend so much time and effort on a difficult dog. I'm wondering if, in this case, it might not be best for the dog as well as the people involved to rehome the dog to a home where there would be confident, dog-experienced adults only in the household. I'm concerned that something very bad is going to happen especially when one of the kids, at least, is fearful of the dog.

If it was my dog and I was in a similar situation, the first thing I'd do would be to find a professional trainer who was experienced in dealing with aggression to come out and evaluate the dog and the environmental situation and give me advice about the best way to proceed (i.e in home training, away training, rehome, etc.)

We can't accurately evaluate the situation on a forum. This situation, in my opinion, requires a professional on site evaluation.

Reading this thread, I wonder how does a dog obtain a CGC, yet
play a thug in the house?
Go thru 3 ob classes, do NLIF, and be a thug who needs an ecollar in the house?
What is wrong here?
Could it be as easy as changing the release command from OK
to something else, less likely to be confusing, say "freedog"?
I just wanted to say OK is so often used in conversation, and used in so many different contexts, it's a confusing word to use for a release.
I use 'freedog', and had a nieghbor whom I was helping, doing training with her and her dog, who was used to OK.
She insisted on continuing it's use. Her dog also is fearful of thunder and lightening and one day after some storms she was complaining about his poor behavior, I asked.
When a stranger comes to the door, and he starts alerting,
what do you say to calm him?
it's OK boy?
when he's acting wierd with stormy weather, what do you "comfort" him with, the same thing? It's OK?
so he's supposed to know that doesn't mean "freedog", do whatever floats your boat?
Moment of truth, realizing the word had a totally opposite meaning to him in those situations. It never meant stop barking, it never meant calm down, ignore the thunder, but instead, do whatever you'd like!
You're on the phone, dog's in a down/stay. You reply OK to the person on the line, dog gets up to play...

For many reasons, OK is not OK for a release, but the biggest one being the multiple contexts in which it is used, and the frequency with which it is used makes for a confusing pandomonia nobody needs to put up with!

Your call, but they're dogs, not word context language specialists. They don't understand why you released them and now they gotta hear NO, or whatever your reaction to them
being released is....it's not really fair, is it?

Just a hunch, but there's got to be a reason for so much confusion. There is no place for him but omega amongst a pack of humans, but he doesn't know that in the house?

Fear on the kids part could be the biggest obstacle, and the
cycle may be so set inside it'll take an outside run, a
slow re-introduction, or a offsite training situation to
fix, but chances are that offsite trainer is never going to see this beast, but will see the CGC,NLIF, ready to please
side most often, and not get what the problem is.

As for it nipping...the bite is inhibited, I heard no tale of gore, so perhaps the fear exhibited here is unwarranted.
This man loves this dog, and "get rid of" is not the advice he seeks, that option is not in his range of possibilities.

I'd be feeding him by hand for awhile, the kitchen would be off limits to him for a good long while, and the girls would be with me working him, praising him, or they'd be asking themselves if they really want to be the cause of yet another hopeless sad story pathetically awaiting re-homing
while languishing in a shelter. I'd make them read the
pathetic stories on petfinder and take a stab at writing one for Bruno, since it is their stubborness and fear which will possibly land him there.

If they think life without Bruno will be better, they ought to think how that's going to affect dear old Dad, and how much that is going to play out in the human pack later.

But to suggest "get rid of" with the sparse info seems
premature and a fearful reaction to me, and I don't blame Eric for being upset with this thread at all.



Enjoy This Day!

I am closing this thread - I edited in my comments in the original post. I also posted some edited in comments on a few posts that were DEAD WRONG.