OK, here's the situation. In the last thread you had an idea as to what leads me to this point.

Well, I got the first pup. 6-7wks old. Had her for 2wks and in that time, I determined that she is going to be a SUPER dog for a military situation and not after something that intense. She also had some civil behaviors. My last male did the same things and he was pretty civil.

Well, I go back to my buddy and bring her back.

Well, I got offered a female pup appx 4.5mo old. I got her yesterday and am not really satisfied. Maybe I have to give her time but I think she is too far gone for me to work with. Its going to take more work than its worth I think.

Her drive is almost non existent. From what I understand, nothing was done with her. Well, here is her deal. I bring her outside (she has never been around major streets, etc as they live dozens of miles from the nearest store, etc) and is freaked out by it. I feed her in the kitchen she eats but if I enter the kitchen she runs off. Playing with balls, she'll grab it but if you roll another she just watches it roll away.

She is chewing wooden legs, table tops, ripped all toys, etc. But when I grab a toy to tug a bit, she sits with firm lips not willing to bite on it nor will she open up to mouth on you at all. You can't get her to bite anything if you’re human. Not a rag, a towel, a plush toy, nothing. You pick her up, she tenses and is frozen with a bit of whining.

She was playing with a rope that had knots on the ends. She wasn't shaking hard at all. Just light loose circular motions. Well, the toy flipped over and bonked her on the head. She yelps and drops it and playing is DONE. She runs to the corner of the couches, and curls up... She's tried to squeeze behind the couch b/c the microwave "dinged" when the food was done as well.

So in your own opinion, this dog isn't worth much at all for Shz, PPT, or anything besides a regular house pet like a border collie, both are hyper, bother wouldn't bust a grape, both can be destructive...

What do you say? Continue working or just take her back in a couple weeks.

She is just plain too scared of everything. I do understand she is young and has been compromised but not having any environmental conditioning. But isn't the major imprinting like surface training, environments, sounds, be done?

If you start from scratch at this age, it’s almost hopeless right?

Looks like no prey drive.. I, personally, would return her.. but that's up to you.. I feel that all the drive building you can do won't get her to competition level.. <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Just my two cents.

Socialization aside, you got her YESTERDAY! Give the poor thing a break. I am not saying she will or won't be good for your needs but you haven't even had her a day??

also at 4.5 months old she should be teething, another very stressful time in a pup's development.

I have to say, as a breeder I think many folks have unrealistic expectations from puppies. They all handle stress differently, and many nice pups are given up on because they won't play tug at the airport or be fearless in their first exposure to something new.

Not all puppies that turn out well, start out fearless and many don't show their full potential right away.

Again, I realize this pup is starting at a disadvantage because she has limited life experience but why don't you give the pup a chance to settle in and feel comfortable before you assault her with tests?

Do you think you might be better served by buying an adult or started dog? You seem to have a very specific lists of what you want in your dog and you might have better luck fullfilling your wants by buying something that is a a known quantity. Puppies, even the best bred and raised are always an unknown quantity. I also wouldn't expect much from a puppy that hasn't had a chance to settle in and bond with you. If the pup came fram a kennel situation it is a big jump to being the only canine on the place in a home or indoors enviroment.

Correct me if I am wrong but it sounds like you go through dogs like they are goldfish? How many dogs have you bought and gotten rid of over the last 2 years?

On the first day I went to get MY puppy, I had quite a list of tests to do before I was going to get him..
I first made sure that the whole litter wasn't gun shy..
I did some prey for a ball and was delighted when the pup actually brought back the ball. took him to a new location and saw how her reacted.. Well what I'm trying to say is that if you have specific requirements and expectations from a puppy make sure you do the tests before commiting..

Cindy does make an important point about teething.. but I don't suppose you're too pleased with your pup. I feel sorry for the pup.. She didn't ask to be taken <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Aaron:

I've read a few of your posts over the last few months.

It seems like your voyage is going in the right direction, although you still seem to have a very high potential to screw things up.

My advice on expectations for an inexperienced handler and a new pup:

Pick a dog you can live with, and realize that your own limitations are at least as much an issue as the dog. This is the case for almost all new handlers, it is not personal to you.

You know yourself you aren't ready for a serious working dog.

The dog you are ready for won't reach that level high level.

So, why expect so much?

Why not just get a dog, learn together, love the dog, be patient, caring toward your dog?

Why take a dog when you seem so uncertain about your own willingness to commit to the dog? Don't you know that the dog needs to feel secure with you? We all make enough mistakes in training that the dog needs to know that it is okay, it is secure, it is loved.

If you don't get this, don't get a dog.

In my case: I looked at getting a working lines malinois, and decided to get a Beauceron instead. Others start with a german showlines GSD.

Am I limited in what I can achieve in Schutzhund? Yes. Will she bark at the decoy? No. Does she enjoy working with the decoy? Yes. Is she obedient off the field? Very. Does she wilt under pressure in trials? Absolutely. Do I look with some envy toward my club mate with the over-the-top czech lines GSD? yes.

Do I love my dog? More than you show any ability to understand.

Aaron, I think you've got it in you, but look in the mirror long and hard, and don't make this little female a victim. You need some more time.

rgds, andrew may

Something I learned, thankfully, while I was still starting out:

Stop blaming the dog and start learning to work with him.

Aaron, return the dog and get a pitbull. I've read most of your posts, and my impression is you're looking for a pitbull in a mals body. You're on the west coast right? You have access to some outstanding dogs and breeders. Is sport your goal? You could title a pitbull in sport. You want more of a challenge with the same pitbull type attitude, consider a bandog from a reputable breeder.

I've found your posts to be very helpful (and entertaining <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> ) and because of them, I will think long and hard before I decide if I'm ever suited for a herder.

Good luck!

 Quote:

Aaron, return the dog and get a pitbull. I've read most of your posts, and my impression is you're looking for a pitbull in a mals body. You're on the west coast right? You have access to some outstanding dogs and breeders. Is sport your goal? You could title a pitbull in sport. You want more of a challenge with the same pitbull type attitude, consider a bandog from a reputable breeder.

I've found your posts to be very helpful (and entertaining <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> ) and because of them, I will think long and hard before I decide if I'm ever suited for a herder.

Good luck!

Nice post, I agree 100% I love the APBT , but dont have the patience to get one where it needs to go, so I got a well bred mal. Good luck , I thought I was low on patience, but I feel good reading your posts