Quote:

sorry, molly, but nobody can prevent bloat. the scientific research on why it happens is very inconclusive. it does not follow a predictable pattern. vets advise to take the precautions you listed because it's a way to ease the worries of owners, but the truth is you can take all the precautions in the world, and your dog may still bloat. almost any vet will tell you this, that we just don't know why.

sorry, Alice - but you are right and you are also wrong. Your dog may be predisposed to bloat, and therefore there may be nothing you can do to prevent HIM from bloating, if he is genetically predisposed to it. But, many dogs that are not predisposed to it, can still bloat due to full stomachs and running/exercise, bloat due to gas build-up and torsion due to this - nothing genetic about it, and yes this can be prevented. As I said already (maybe you didn't read my entire post) - there are dogs who do bloat despite all the precautions possible to take - dogs that are found dead in their kennels or dogs that bloat despite being fed small meals and kept quiet after feeding. These are the instances you are speaking of - the ones that are obviously not preventable. But it is good "management" to feed small meals and keep dogs quiet after meals, and therefore preventing bloat/torsion caused by gas build-up bloating. I will forward a note from a well-respected emergency vetrinarian in VA, to whom one of my puppy owners was asking for advice on "stomach tacking" as an option for when her pup is spayed. Her message in response to this may be interesting to you and others.

molly

Here is the message from a well-respected emergency vet in VA, Lynn Harpold. I found it interesting in regards to stomach tacking and bloat/torsion, and perhaps it will be interesting to this forum as well.

"The decision of whether to have the stomach "tacked" needs to be considered in any of the deep chested breeds, such as ours.Obviously a good time to do it is when they are spayed or neutered or if they need abdominal surgery to remove a foreign body, etc. It is a personal decision based on our willingness to accept the risk of their developing GDV or the risks (low) of the preventative surgery. We get the most requests from people who have past experience with GDV, since it is so devastating. The surgery and anesthesia are generally safe but complications can occur. Some specialists can do it with laparoscopy. It is best to wait until they are grown to full size. We have seen a few dogs that had the surgery before they reached full stature and the change in anatomy caused altered orientation of the stomach resulting in delayed gastric emptying and vomiting.



Although in the past the recommendation was to feed elevated, the most recent study found that elevated feedings increased the risk of bloat. I agree that it is best to feed smaller meals and avoid exertion on an full stomach, etc. If you read the peer reviewed literature, not things written by people giving their own opinion (such as I am doing here), there are inconsistencies in identifying management risk factors due to study design (need a very large population to have significance to the data). The biggest problem with trying to identify risk factors is that some family lines are just more prone to torsion. This is most likely due to anatomical or functional variations. These dogs develop gdv no matter how careful we are with management. We definitely see gdv (and mesenteric torsion which is even more dangerous) in dogs who eat too much at a time,have a change in diet/routine, exercise soon after eating, are anxious (boarding, separation) or become overheated. Generally the problem in these situations is attributed to them panting heavily and swallowing air. I would also implicate the suppression of the parasympathetic nervous system in some of these situations which decreases intestinal blood flow and slows motility. On the other hand, we see plenty of dogs with GDV and no history of any of the "risky" behaviours. There are definitely factors beyond our control.



That said, neither of my dogs has had the surgery. I had meant for Payson to have it done with the spay but it did not happen due to a miscommunication. (I was swamped with emergencies and forgot to tell the surgeon, so much for being a good vet). I have not done it with the Golden (male). If I knew either dog had problems in their lines, I would do it as an elective procedure. If I had a bloodhound, it would be mandatory. I see my dogs as being vunerable and do worry. If I have a reason to go into either abdomen in the future, they will have their stomachs "tacked", but at this point have decided not to do it as an elective procedure.



I hope this helped, sorry that I run on.



I hope everyone has a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year. Be careful - we have already had several chocolate toxicities requiring hospitalization including two retrievers in one night (no surprise) and a maltese that ate a pound of M&M's (he was vibrating), one cat with icicles as a linear foreign body, dogs run over by UPS/FedEX, and are expecting plentyof pancreatitis in dogs sharing Christmas dinner. Also, poinsettias are not toxic, they just cause vomiting but mistletoe is dangerous. "

Just a side note, the american mastiffs aren't in fact recognized by the CKC.

Also, the "giant" alaskan malamute doesn't exist as far as I'm concerned. I couldn't find a kennel club that registers them, so it's the same thing as saying you've got a "king" german shepherd.

American Mastiff are a recognized breed by the Continental Kennel Club.

http://www.continentalkennelclub.com/Ads.aspx?BreedNum=18

What are you talking about, many "Giant" malamutes are registered under the AKC. stratford kennel's malamutes are all registered with the AKC. To the standard, the AKC doesn't discriminate against size, the point of a malamute is the pulling power.

I don't know of GSDs, they could be different, but when it comes to malamutes, "Size does not matter"

As a side note, giant and standard malamutes as both registered under the breed, "Alaskan Malamute." The AKC doesn't have any separation in these two types of dog.

Apologies re:CKC, I thought you meant the Canadian Kennel Club.

What I meant about the "giant" alaskans, is that the classification isn't mentioned in their standard. Sure, it's fine for them to be bigger, but there's nothing in the standard for the breed about Standard or Giant.

molly, you are assuming there is such a thing as a genetic predisposition to bloat. nobody knows if there is such a thing. there are correlations--whole litters of pups that have bloated as adults. but we don't know if it is a problem of genetics, body type, or choices made by the breeder about vaccination.

if a dog never bloats, one can't possibly know if he would have bloated had he been managed differently. therefore, you can't know if what you are doing is preventing it. to prevent something, you have to know what causes it. but we do know that plenty of dogs that are managed according to the guidelines bloat anyway.

deciding whether or not to get an elective gastropexy is something that should be done in consultation with a veterinary surgeon. he or she can help you evaluate the risks-benefit ratio in your particular situation.

well, if there is something called the continental kennel club, and it recognizes mongrels as purebreds, then that tells you something about the legitimacy of the ckc.

all dogs who are under the AKC could have been considered mongrels at one time or another. Look at the stupid kick me dogs like yorkies. They eventually ended up under a registered breed like the AKC.

http://www.akc.org/breeds/german_shepherd_dog/index.cfm

Approved February 11, 1978
o gee... Just because clubs recognize breeds doesn't make them any more "worthy" in my eyes. There are tons of great lines out there. I don't really care or understand the AM since it was bred to drool less, however I'm sure there are breeds like the Mackenzie River Husky.

I'm pretty sure this is a forum where work worthiness is more than show/registered/etc worthiness.