Quote: Grace Cooper

I have a fifteen month old Greater Swiss Mountain Dog. Although she is the sweetest thing, she is bull headed. I have had many dogs in my 55 years, but none as difficult at Belle. I have tried just about everything-puppy obedience, choke chain, etc. She fights for the pack leader position everyday-everytime we do anything. I walk her about 3 miles per day because she is so high energy, and we play ball and chase. When I have her out for a walk, she jerks me everytime she sees a squirrel, a bird, a dog, a cat, a car, a person, the air. I have multiple injuries as I am not as strong as she. Now, with a little background-should I send her off to a training facility for a month or two? Will this change her personality-her sweetness. I want her behavior to change, so I am confused about this issue. Do they hurt the dogs with shock collars and other training methods? Any input would be helpful as we are at our wits end. Thanks

Grace, here is my own personal opinion: I will never have a dog of mine trained without me. If I ever need help because something is beyond my abilities, I will not hesitate to get the help, but I will still always be the dog's handler and trainer.

That said...... I would start by reading and listening to (there is a podcast) Ed Frawley's article about the groundwork to being the dog's pack leader.

This would be while I was waiting for the Leerburg Basic Ob video as an intro, because you want to be 100% certain that the dog really understands every command in every situation, with every tone of voice, in every location before you correct for not obeying the command; I'd order the Dominant Dog video in the same order.

I would also order a prong collar (and read the Leerburg instructions for fitting it).

Then I would get both Ed Frawley's Leerburg e-collar video and the e-collar if the prong collar and those videos were not sufficient.

And I can promise you that a couple (or more) viewings of the Leerburg videos will indeed render you capable of doing the training yourself. I don't think I'm going out on a limb; I believe that the purpose of the videos is to allow YOU to be the trainer, and that they accomplish that.

P.S. You can do this. It's not too late, and you'll be very happy you did it yourself and increased the right kind of bond between you and your dog. And frosting on the cake: You'll save a ton of money by not shipping her away to be trained by someone else.

 Quote: Grace Cooper

Do they hurt the dogs with shock collars and other training methods? Any input would be helpful as we are at our wits end. Thanks

No one ever uses a shock collar (e-collar) to hurt a dog, at least not any trainer worth his salt or your money. In fact, an e-collar might be just what you need at this point. There are many, many threads on this board regarding the use of e-collars, and it may be worth your while to read most/all of them.

With that said, why would you want to send your dog away to have someone else train her? Is that trainer then going to move back in with you when the dog comes home? Your dog is no different from any other head-strong dog; she just happens to weigh more. You can definitely do the training yourself.

I would seriously do some research on the e-collar, mainly to assure yourself that it is a safe and effective training tool when used properly. Also, Ed Frawley has an excellent DVD regarding e-collar training that you might want to look into.

Good luck. You can do this!

http://www.leerburg.com/302.htm

http://www.leerburg.com/301.htm

http://www.leerburg.com/318.htm

http://www.leerburg.com/dogtrainingpodcasts.htm

Here's an article and a free eBook to start you out while you wait for your videos:
http://www.leerburg.com/groundwork.htm

http://www.leerburg.com/equip.htm#prong

http://www.leerburg.com/fit-prong.htm

http://www.leerburg.com/prong.htm#safe

Grace-

An extended stay at training facility will get your dog trained and possibly correct his behavior problems...The thing is, it is up to you to maintain the training/conditioning installed in your dog.

It is up to you to accept the role of leader 100% of the time that you are with your dog. If you do not educate yourself in the proper way to provide pack structure in your dogs life, then all the in-kennel training is useless b/c your dog will fall into his old habits of behavior when you bring him home.

You need the training.......the dog is not the problem.......a dog is a dog and as responsible owners, it is up to us to educate ourselves on how to communicate and live with our dogs to prevent/eliminate the problems you are experiencing.

Read the article on pack structure and buy the basic obedience dvd.......give things another try....be patient.....and if you are still having behavior problems....read on....

I would reccomend one on one training with a qualified trainer/behaviorist to work on your handling skills or particpate in only a two or three week board and train program to install the basics of training and behavior reconditioning that is then followed up with several one on one lessons to provide the handling skills you need. Your dog's personality should not be diminished if handled by good trainers, whether at home or in another kennel.

As far as choke chains, prongs, e-collars, etc. that you were asking about.....They are only tools....How they are used equates to good or bad training. Check the credentials of your trainer out thoroughly.

Ed's dvd's are priceless if you haven't looked at them yet. Check them out.

OOPS - I see that several other web board users beat me with advice to Grace.

I'll be sure to hit my "refresh" button more often.

 Quote: grace cooper

I have a fifteen month old Greater Swiss Mountain Dog. Although she is the sweetest thing, she is bull headed. I have had many dogs in my 55 years, but none as difficult at Belle. I have tried just about everything-puppy obedience, choke chain, etc. She fights for the pack leader position everyday-everytime we do anything. I walk her about 3 miles per day because she is so high energy, and we play ball and chase. When I have her out for a walk, she jerks me everytime she sees a squirrel, a bird, a dog, a cat, a car, a person, the air. I have multiple injuries as I am not as strong as she. Now, with a little background-should I send her off to a training facility for a month or two? Will this change her personality-her sweetness. I want her behavior to change, so I am confused about this issue. Do they hurt the dogs with shock collars and other training methods? Any input would be helpful as we are at our wits end. Thanks

Not sure how it's showing up for others, but the "Sending My Pup Away..." thread is showing up in the "Trouble with the Stay Command" thread and maybe should be moved so Grace can find her thread and answers to her questions?

Grace, I'd be leary of sending your dog away for 2 months unless you do some extensive research into where you're sending her. You won't really have any idea how she will be treated unless you get references and visit a place a few times. And definitely visit while your dog is there, surprise visits (to the trainer).

You may already know the history of the GSMD, that it was originally used for herding, then also for drafting (pulling wagons or carts). So your pup "knows" how to pull A prong collar will definitely help on the walks (and knowing how to use it - advice which you can get here on this forum and the Leerburg articles) and will keep you and your dog safer while teaching your pup how to walk nicely without pulling or bolting.

You may eventually even want to get your dog into drafting, that would be fun for her and for you. It gives her a "job". Take a look at this site: http://www.gsmdca.org/draft/index.php

Alison, I have a couple questions that perhaps either you or someone else can answer regarding the stay.

My 7 month old is really solid on his sit and is doing really well with sit/stay. We started inside and have now started practicing outside with me moving a few more steps away from him each time.

1. Is it a good idea, along with praise for maintaining the sit, to keep saying "sit" as I move away from him?

2. If at any point while I'm moving away he gets antsy and starts looking like he's going to break his sit should he be getting a "No...sit"?

3. If he keeps his butt planted on the ground but swivels his body around to watch me as I move around him is he considered to be maintaining the stay position?

These may be really stupid questions but I want to make sure I'm not doing anything to confuse my dog.

 Quote: sarah_morris

Alison, I have a couple questions that perhaps either you or someone else can answer regarding the stay.

My 7 month old is really solid on his sit and is doing really well with sit/stay. We started inside and have now started practicing outside with me moving a few more steps away from him each time.

1. Is it a good idea, along with praise for maintaining the sit, to keep saying "sit" as I move away from him?

2. If at any point while I'm moving away he gets antsy and starts looking like he's going to break his sit should he be getting a "No...sit"?

3. If he keeps his butt planted on the ground but swivels his body around to watch me as I move around him is he considered to be maintaining the stay position?

These may be really stupid questions but I want to make sure I'm not doing anything to confuse my dog.

I say "stay" because he DID sit, and for us "sit" is just "hit the ground with your butt" and "stay" is "stay there in that sit." Different.

I do repeat it in the teaching phase if necessary, because "stay" is kind of a hard concept, I think. Harder than an action and a quick praise. I especially repeat as I am backing up a step, because it seems to be more instinctive to the dog to come with me. I use my stay hand (traffic cop palm) at the same time.

Thank you, Connie