I apologise if this is an often-asked question. I know there is a differenct between PP work and Sport work, but is it possible to train a dog to do both successfully? What exactly is the difference between the two? I adopted Bodo (in photo) from the Military Working Dog program (where he flunked out for being too difficult to train and having a shallow bite) and fully intend to try to train him in some way as well (probably sport) but don't know if he could ever be good enough to actually compete. (plus he's neutered, are there rules about neutered dogs competing, like in a show ring?) I am looking now into getting another GSD for PPD work, but am also interested in the local sports (mondioring, Schutzhund, etc.) and was wondering if I needed two new dogs for this, or could my PPD dog be trained for sport as well. If so, which to train first? Or at the same time?

Thanks
Kameron

http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s258/sazkeeper/Bodohug.jpg

From my experience I would train for the sports first.I am trying to make my PPD dog a sports dog. I can't say it's like that for every dog, but for mine I think I should have just kept him as a PPD and not try to switch him.KNowing my dog it was not a good decision on my part and that is why after this trial coming up I will be retiring him from the sport.My 15 months old is my true Schutzhund project and he's great, if later on I want to switch him I will but I can't see me doing it. One PPd is enough.

Kameron,
You can train for both and some (few) dogs can do both. Most people don't really need a PPD, beyond the dog being a deterrent.

The fact that he's neutered doesn't matter for SchH or Ringsport.

His shallow bite will cost you some points in SchH, but that's all. Not sure about Mondio Ring, but the shallow bite wouldn't be too much of a concern in French Ring, as the grip is not judged in FR.

A really strong dog in PP, Police, etc... is sometimes hard for the sport because of the control requirements in the sport. The amount of obedience that the dog has to learn, in the protection phase, is hard for a dog that really just wants to destroy the helper. Depending on the dog, then the handler may become a target b/c you're interfering with the dog's assault on the helper, not to mention actually trying to make the dog do this & that....This is where good training becomes an absolute necessity.

That's the problem I had too , my obedience is great, but when the helper steps in the field and I give my dog a good correction for not paying attention to me ,his drives goes up and I get bit.Nothing major but he is sooo into looking for the helper it takes alot of hard handling on my part to ge thim to focus.The shallow bite is a problem , I don't like having points taking for just that, cause I know I will be getting points taking out on the outs! My off leash is great but again if the helper is in sight , my dog never looks at me , he is always looking for the helper.i guess we'll see what kind of scores we get this March!

Certainly you can train a dog with the correct temperament and nerve to be a good PPD yet maintain good sport scores - my current dog is an outstanding PPD along with providing me the satisfaction of decent SchH scores.

It's about nerve and temperament, which shows you how vitally important the testing/selection phase of getting a dog is. Don't skimp on your testing or else you may never get the type of dog that you want or need.

Well that's for sure , but you have to consider that good productive training, good helpers that know how to read dogs and know what they are doing is a HUGE addition to it.
We lack all both in our club.We lost our experience helpers due to their careers, we don't train as much as we should and we don't have a training field we use any field we can.We have to tell our green helper what to do every second during the bite work, so it affects the handlers performance and we don't train enough to get from point A to point B with good training. Unfortunely we do what we can, I just see my dog going backwards lately instead of going forward.It takes more than a good dog ,IMO if you don't have all the good components in your training to get all the good points out of your dogs,what do you have..

Thanks for the input. I'm still definitely in the learning and research phase of all this, but am definitely looking forward to the fun and challenge of training the dogs. I've trained a number of different animal species, but these are my first dogs. I can say that since I've gotten the Leerburg DVD on basic obedience (and a prong collar!) that Bodo has come along leaps and bounds. His demeanor and focus are improving with simple discipline - i.e. controlling how he goes through doors, how he behaves when fed, etc. I'm not sure how true the evaluation from the MWD program was of him. I do know they have hundreds of dogs in the program at any givent time, so if a dog doesn't come right into what they want from him, he washes out. I'm waiting for some more DVDs to come in the mail (Drive, Focus, and Grip mainly) and we'll see how far I can get with Bodo as far as sport goes. I've never seen him bite, so I'm not sure what they considered 'shallow' or if it's something correctible with more training.

We are looking into PPD work with the puppy we are hoping to get, so maybe it will all work out and Bodo will surprise us with sport, and we will end up with both! I know most people don't really need a PPD dog, but we travel a lot into remote places (like into West TX near the border) and it would give us piece of mind to have him. But I defintely want to find a place to practice/work on a regular basis, as I know consistent maintenance training is a must with any behavior in any animal.

Kameron

I think you are probably right about Bodo possibly washing out only because of time factors. He might end up being a great sport dog.