As per Cindy's request, here is a new thread continuing on the topic of PPD's here:

http://www.leerburg.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=132603#Post132603

 Quote: angelique cadogan

Mike , how would you rate a dog that gets stick hit pretty darn hard for the first time , comes off for a few seconds and goes back and bite?
It happend to my male during a test, he was hit as hard has the helper could hit, and the helper is a pretty big and strong guy.my male came off and reengaged. But I have to say I was shocked he came off at first , he looked stuned but didn't waste time to re-engage maybe a second, I was at least 50 feet away.
Any thoughts?

In answer to this question... it sounds like the dog had never done stick hits, it was introduced to the dog too fast and hard, you let the dog practice an avoidance behavior rather than building the dog up to understanding stick hits, but at least he recovered n now you can go back and work on letting the dog deal with pain. How does he react if you hit him with a whip? After being hit by a whip, will he engage the decoy if the decoy is swaying the whip and trying to back the dog off the sleeve? Sometimes the recovery is just as important, n if a dog is not ready for that step then he won't look good. If a titled SchH3 dog for $15k comes off a bite as I mentioned in the other thread, that's a whole different ballgame How old is your dog? Has he ever felt pain before? In the case of the dog that $15k dog, he went back on the bite but I relieved pressure to make him go back on the bite, had I continued giving the dog crap then I woulda been able to stand there all day blocking him from a bite. In that situation, if the dog were offleash, he would probably try and circle me, avoid confrontation and tag me in the ass. Some people might call this "smart" or "tactful"... but it's avoidance. The dog doesn't want to deal with confrontation so figures out a sneaky way to avoid facing the fight. It's the job of the trainer to make the dog better, some dogs hit their limit, other dogs can be worked thru it by exposing them and conditioning them to work thru the stress. But you can read the body language of the dog to determine how good the dog will ever be.

So,,,, Mike what would your definition of a good PPD prospect? What are you looking for when you first look at the dog

Mike, when this happend( it was by a strange helper at a seminar) , I think he had been stick hit( by our own helpers), the same for too long and after that happend we decided to change the way we do our stick hits, I think we get too comfortable and routined in our club.We made some good changes since then, he did recover pretty well, after the shock he got, he never came off again. He is comfortable engaging.We do use the whip but he gets too defensive when the whip is in use.we have tried to get him to focus for a while and bite with a stable mind.After my trial coming up next week then we are going to work him a bit differently, back to PPD work.I wanted to do my Schutz1 with him and retire him from the sport and back to PPd work.We have made his bite work a bit of routined due to the trial.But after that, i really want to push him further with the bite work and really put him to the test.Are you saying with the whip to crack it next to him as he is engaging?
Thanks for taking the time Mike I appreciate it.
By the way he is 3, 4 in April