Greetings All:

Please advise: I have reviewed Ed's article and subsequent list of email questions re: raising two puppies at the same time. It relates to my situation but not precisely so.

I am shortly due to move into a house with a large backyard and a privacy fence (currently I am in a no-dog apartment). I have rescued GSD's before with good results, and as I really dont do anything else good with my life, I am determined to do so again after the move. To that end, I have been in touch with a number of rescue groups and have my eye on two dogs as rescue potentials.

The first is a fixed female about 18 months old. Her current foster describes her as very social and friendly, quick to learn, good ball drive, all in all a great dog. I would have no concerns about her except she is at an age where she may begin to get uppity.

The male is more problematic. He is two years old, fixed. He has some as yet undiagnosed "weakness" in his back legs. His first foster suspects it was due to being kept in too small a crate/not exercised enough, but otherwise described him as being a wonderfully tempered dog. He was placed with a family who are now turning him back in as he seems to have developed (or always had) severe separation anxiety that manifests itself in destructive behavior and a real hatred of his crate.

I know the above info from rescue groups is not always to be relied on, (My first rescue was named "Gentle Ben" by his rescue organization, and he turned into a protective-aggressive demon of a dog, ultimately resolved favorably).

So here's some questions:

Given the age of these dogs and there respective behavior report cards, how might be the best way to adopt and assimilate them both? I MAY have some leeway with their current foster homes, that might allow me to adopt one ahead of the other. Perhaps as much as a month? Would it be preferable to adopt one ahead of the other? If so, which one? Is it likely that the presence of the female dog may help address the separation anxiety present in the male?

I would LIKE to, somewhere down the road, be able to let these dogs socialize with one another in the house and in the backyard, but I am more than ok with initially keeping them separate, doing my groundwork, establishing myself as pack leader etc. In terms of their training, my ambitions would probably not extend beyond advanced obedience and maybe some agility work.

Any advice is welcome, as are any links to articles you feel may be relevant.

Thanks,
Brock

It would be hard for me to say how much I agree with Mike..... because it's probably over 100%.

I have taken two adoptees in quick succession, but only in an emergency. And it was very hard.

From someone who has adopted for a long time, and who works at home and doesn't even have to leave the dogs all day ....

Well, no need to re-type Mike's post. He made all my points.

Quoting Brock Wilson: Two, often people on the board come off (intentionally or otherwise) as extremely critical and harsh. This is part and parcel of any subculture where a few experts feel they can abandon any pretense of civility to people who know less than them. This is a shame, but it is the price of seeking advice here. END



I guess there is some of that in the extremely direct advice people can let themselves in for here.

I still think that some of it comes from a tendency to empathize with the dog more than with the human.

Hmmm. Maybe that's not 100% ideal, either.......

Thanks for the replies thus far.

Mr. Arnold (or others for that matter)-- Do you have a ballpark idea of how long you'd wait between adopting the first dog and the second? Your point of "too tight a schedule" is well taken. Following that, do you have an opinion as to which dog might be best to adopt first? As I write this, I realize that the answers are likely to be very dependent on the individual dogs themselves (and perhaps dependent on my skills as a trainer). But BROADLY, in a scenario where dog "a" is a challenge and dog "b" is likely an easier transition, are there any guidelines as to which to take in first?

My last 3 GSDs (one at a time) have been rescues, and each successive one has been more challenging even though I think I am learning more all the time. Maybe I'm just making poorer choices All the above advice sounds good to me and I don't feel knowledgeable enough to offer any advice myself. I haven't raised/rescued more than one at a time, and I haven't read Ed's articles on the subject.

Coincidentally, tho, in my ongoing learning process, I'm reading "The Dog's Mind, Understanding Your Dog's Behavior" by Fogle (1990). It got very good reviews on Amazon, and so far, it's been a very interesting and informative read. I'd recommend it to all who want a better understanding of canine behavior.

There's just too much there to even scratch the surface in a post, but I happen to be at a point in the book that discusses possessive aggression, including competitive aggression and sibling rivalry. Here's a short synopsis of a portion I recently read, an example of what might be especially helpful to someone trying to introduce two or more dogs into a pack:

Dogs don't expect to live in equality with other dogs or with us for that matter. Democracy is a misplaced ideology in the canine world. Their minds work differently but we find this a difficult concept to accept because it's alien to the way most of us think. Kind owners who punish bully dogs and elevate submissive ones create conflict in their dogs minds because, to their thinking, what we are doing is unnatural. Jealousy over attention from the owner, possessiveness over a toy or bone, rivalry over who sleeps in the favorite spot, these are all manifestations of problems in dominance behavior where a hierarchy has not been properly established. . . Our responsibility during the juvenile period of the dog's mind is to determine which of two or more dogs is likely to be dominant over the other(s) and then give subtle rewards to that dog (like the first pat when you come home.) At the same time he must remember that you are dominant over him. The submissive dog, in the meantime, gets ignored. This attitude by us, hard as it may seem, dramatically reduces the likelihood of future fights.

This is new stuff for me. I know I'd certainly proceed cautiously trying to deal with two unknowns at once. Seems like the potential for difficulties could be more than doubled. But the rewards can be that much greater, too.

Good luck!

another Mike A.

---

Suppose you were an idiot.

Suppose you were a member of Congress.

But I repeat myself.

-Mark Twain

Mr. Wilson,

Is there any reason why you have to foster both of these dogs? As someone who has and will continue to foster dogs, if I were in your position, I would opt to figure out which one was less likely to be adopted, and I would foster him/her because I am in a position to be able to foster long-term. But either way, I wouldn't foster both unless there really was no other option.

You said that you think the temperaments of the two dogs are sound, but do you know how they are with strange dogs? A dog like the male you mentioned with the "undiagnosed weakness" could turn into an additional problem in a two dog mix, as injuries or weaknesses can sometimes make the animal feel vulnerable to people or other animals and unforseen aggression can be the result.

At the very least, I would imagine it would make him more insecure when placed in yet another home. I wouldn't mix that dog with another unfamiliar dog when there are so many other variables present.

You're moving soon you said, right? With the stress of a move, I personally wouldn't want to take both dogs on so soon after relocating myself. I did that once, and was amazed at how much work it was. I wasn't able to commit to the rehab of the dog as much as I would have liked.

It all worked out well in the end, but if I had it to do over again, I would have waited until I was well settled before bringing a new dog home. And I especially wouldn't take two, even if there was a few months or so between the two arrivals.

I commend you for wanting to help as many dogs as possible; I completely know what that feels like and your heart is obviously in the right place, for sure. But if there are any other foster families available to one of the dogs, I would decide on one and dedicate myself to that one alone, or even better, I would wait a 3 or 4 months after moving myself before fostering any dog.

I know that the list of foster homes is woefully short, so if that's not an option, I would strongly suggest that you just take one with no deadline for taking another. If all goes well and things are running smoothly, then perhaps you can consider taking another.

Fostering dogs is often filled with unpredictibility even in the most ideal situations, so I think it would be wise to set in place as much stability and certainty as you can at the start to make it a smooth transition for you and the dogs.

I wish you the best.