I use my voice a lot more than I use clickers. Mostly because, with my personal dogs, I'm not asking them to do very complicated things or things that are very foreign to natural behaviors. And they're both herding breeds which means they're bred to work with and learn quickly from humans.

Also, I don't like to have anything in my hand other than the reward item, if possible, and I don't want my training to come to a halt if I lose the clicker (which I do often).

However, if you're teaching a dog to do something the dog wouldn't normally do, or something very involved and complicated, a clicker can be invaluable. (I believe Anne taught her dog to do a handstand using a clicker!) Most of the dogs doing cool and weird tricks...like the JRT in "The Mask" for example, are trained using clickers and with good reason. It's effective.

Also, I am a HUGE believer in timing during dog training. I'm very focused and pay a lot of attention to my timing with my voice. But that's one of the biggest problems with new trainers. There timing is way off and that will make training go a lot slower, and cause more stress to the dog.

Also, they forget and use different marker words as praise (they'll use "good" one time and then "Yes" another or "okay!", and with some (usually) male clients...their marker word can sound angry, just because of their natural speaking patterns.

Clear and instant communication is vital, IMO. For many of my clients, I recommend using a clicker because it makes their timing better, and it eliminates any weird vocal inflections that might confuse the dog. Eventually, as their timing gets better and they get the hang of it, they can phase out the clicker to a set marker word.

Also, a clicker is handy to let the dog they've done a correct behavior even if you're not readily available to reward the dog right away.

And finally, clickers really have an advantage with some hard to train dogs. My GSD is so easy to train it's like he has ESP. He might not know what I want, but, by God, he wants to figure it out. Other dogs could care less that you want them to do something, and a clicker is a fantastic tool that speeds up training. I've seen chickens that were clicker trained!

So while I personally don't use clickers that often, I really do believe they have a valuable purpose.

 Quote: amber morgan

Also, they forget and use different marker words as praise (they'll use "good" one time and then "Yes" another or "okay!", and with some (usually) male clients...their marker word can sound angry, just because of their natural speaking patterns.

I am one of these "new" trainers, and I want to get it right!

After you have trained the dog a command with distractions, can you stop using the marker and treat? I have been saying "yes" when training, but my dog now understands certain commands. Do I still say "yes," or can I go with the traditional: "good girl"?

 Quote: rick miller

After you have trained the dog a command with distractions, can you stop using the marker and treat? I have been saying "yes" when training, but my dog now understands certain commands. Do I still say "yes," or can I go with the traditional: "good girl"?

Once your dog really gets the command, you "can" phase out the rewards and the marker. However, what I do is reward occassionally. It's my opinion that dogs perform well for random rewarding, and frankly, if they're still working, why shouldn't they still get the occassional reward?

Now, mind you, the reward doesn't always have to be the same as what you trained them with (and shouldn't be, IMO, otherwise the treat/play loses its value). In general, praise is good enough for solidly learned commands, while five star rewards are for initial learning.

The other thing you can do is have the dog do a series of solidly learned commands and then reward after the whole session is over That's what I do with my dogs (the Corgi gets a treat, the GSD gets ball time).

I use "YES!" when a dog first gets something, and while the command is still new. That word means, "YOU FIGURED IT OUT!" Once the dog gets it, then I will change the word to "good" but I don't always do that because in competition you're not going to be praising your dog after every single correct action. I always reward in some form, though, be it after learning a new command, or after doing a series of known commands.

I will add that some individual dogs and some breeds in general will stop working if they're not rewarded often. Some dogs will work just for the joy of making you happy. Others will work only if they get something out of it. So do whatever gets you the most consistant and reliable results and keeps training fun for you and the dog.

Hope I answered your questions. Cheers!

I have the angry voice syndrome a few have described. Whenever I'm "in the zone", I forget about my voice, and my "yes" comes out all angry and serious. Using a clicker has improved training considerably; I'm more relaxed, Jenga's more relaxed - it's more productive and thus more fun, which then naturally results in a happier voice from me. I've found I'm doing better now, even without the clicker.

 Quote:

After you have trained the dog a command with distractions, can you stop using the marker and treat? I have been saying "yes" when training, but my dog now understands certain commands. Do I still say "yes," or can I go with the traditional: "good girl"?

The click is a release. The "good girl", "good boy", is generally used as a bridge - to build up duration before the click.

I may very well be wrong, but I thought the OP was asking if the click (or marker word) was still necessary even after the dog has the command down and is solid in it, even under distrations.

In other words, if the dog learned the sit command, and had been doing it reliably over a long period of time, would you still use a marker and reward every time the dog does it?

I thought that's what he was asking and I certainly phase it out once the dog has it down, with random rewarding, but I know you're the clicker guru and would be interested to hear why you keep it, if you do.

 Quote: amber morgan

I may very well be wrong, but I thought the OP was asking if the click (or marker word) was still necessary even after the dog has the command down and is solid in it, even under distrations.

In other words, if the dog learned the sit command, and had been doing it reliably over a long period of time, would you still use a marker and reward every time the dog does it

Yes, this is what I mean. I think that in the basic obedience video, Ed talks about this. I basically have been telling her "sit," for example, and instead of "yes," I just say "good girl" and pet gently.

Getting back to the original topic, can I "shape" a particular command after it has been taught? For instance, can I teach my dog to stop licking my hands while sitting, and look into my eyes? This is how the dogs Ed trains behave, and it seems that I could tell her to "sit" and mark when she makes eye contact with me every time in the sit with a "yes" and treat. Would this be "shaping" and will it work?