I'm wonder what differences you would see in a dog that genetically had weak nerves vs. one that was very under socialized. And how close you could get an under socialized dog to being "normal".

I have a 8 y/o s/f Border Collie that I got as a 3 y/o (intact at the time). She spent much of her first 3 years crated and had limited interaction with people except her breeder/owner. He had over-corrected her when training her to work stock and she had shut down and wouldn't do anything for him. He literally had to drag her out of her crate when we picked her up. He also told us that she wouldn't come to him when called.

She has a very soft temperament, but lives to please. She decided from about day 3 with me that she was my dog and would try anything for me. She has a fear of some loud noises but not all, ie, thunder storms don't bother her, but loud construction noises do. She always likes to have a "safe spot" (crate, etc) to go to, but uses it less and less as she has gotten older.

She will not quit when working stock for me unless I get really upset (at a stupid sheep or situation), and I've got a couple of sheep who really try to challenge a dog. She is also very ball motivated and will play with anyone who will throw it for her.

I've taken her out and about to many, many places and she has done very well overall. At first she's not sure, but if I keep it fun and upbeat she's willing to try. And the more I get her out the more she likes it. She also lived with me at my live-in nanny job for a year and a half and adjusted to that nicely.

She's a little fear aggressive, but I wonder if that comes from that fact that she basically lived in self preservation mode for a couple years. I know her triggers, avoid those situations and it's not a big deal.

Her breeding is very questionable on her dams side, but very good on her sires. I've always wondered in the back of my mind if she would be a much more confident dog overall if her upbringing had been better.

I don't know, Mara, but she sounds wonderful. I did try to see whatever problem you might be concerned with, but have to say that I don't see any. When you say a little fear aggression is it toward dogs or people or both? Of course that sounds like a result of how aggressively she was trained and treated. But after having her for 5 years, I sure wouldn't worry about weak nerves and from what you say about how you socialize her, it seems she's doing wonderfully and you've handled any nervous issues very well.

I feel the difference between a weak nerved dog and an under-socialized dog is that the latter may show some nervousness about certain situations, especially new situations, but the nervousness doesn't necessarily equate to being genetically weak nerved.

I've always felt there was indeed a difference between a somewhat nervous dog and a dog that was predisposed to having weak nerves due to breeding. The nervous dog has reasons for being nervous (prior handling, abuse, etc) and can be helped out of a nervous mental state, whereas a weak-nerved dog is born that way - unfortunately for those poor dogs.

What you are describing to me is an under socialized dog that went through a lot early in life. She may not have the best nerves in the world from a genetic standpoint, but this is a dog that WORKS, and stands up to tough livestock. A dog with weak nerves could not do that. She sounds like a sensitive dog and on the soft side, but there's nothing wrong with that. A dog that truely has weak nerves has major fear aggression issues, and there are too many "triggers" to avoid in that case.

I think from what you've said she is a good dog that has overcome an awful start in life to be a productive working companion.

Yeah, what John said!

I'm not really concerned about anything we've become a great match for each other and she is my heart dog.

She can be fear agreesive to both people and dogs, but it's more a "get out of my face" thing. If they respect her space and don't push her she has no issues.

My question is more a curiosity question. I'm wondering what differences you will see in one vs. the other. I haven't been around alot of dogs to see the differences first hand.

For a while I thought that some of her issues were due to bad genetics - on her mothers side all the dogs are closely related for at least 4 generations - almost all were full siblings that were being bred. But her father was bred by someone who is well respected in the working sheep dog world and she has a couple of very nice dogs in her pedigree on that side.

But now I think that it was mostly her upbringing as I've been able to accomplish more than I ever originally thought possible with her.

Thanks for your thoughts on the matter