Quote: Jeff Cambeis

Save the dogs kill the handlers

So many people wiling to play the blame game.

IMO the best advice is to keep in touch with the breeder and get updates on the dogs progress.

The OP has some experience evaluating dogs, and her trainer agreed the dog has problems.
If the dog has a history of lunging and biting, you might of just trained the lunging part out of him.

Thank God no one got seriously hurt, and the dog is with some one who can handle it. This situation could have ended up much worse.
Many breeders will not be so willing to stand behind their dogs. that coupled with the fact he kept the dog for 6 months, makes me wonder if the breeder suspected this dog may have had issues.

Internet advice is much like eating chicken wings. You have to eat the meat and spit out the bones. This is a dog forum so most people are going to sympithise with the dog. The reasons may be some what justified by you must take that in to account when reading responces, and taking advice.
Much like going to an environmentalist forum, the environment will often take precedent over the individual.

IMHO every should learn from the post not just the OP

I sympathize for both the dog and the OP. My only thought was if nothing is learned by this very unpleasant experience then it is likely to happen again. Then someone could get hurt or another dog could become what I call a “throw away” pet. I have a real distaste for this. If one looks at the situation from the beginning to the end, in earnest, and can truly say I did NOTHING to contribute to this situation then the dog is a loose cannon and should be put down. But how many times in your experience with working dogs and pet owners can you truly say this occurs, and how many times can you say the opposite. Dang I sure am seeing from those I respect an awful lot as EXPERTS in training dogs period, that VERY rarely do you come across a truly “Kujo” kind of dog.

When dealing with the folks that prefer to own my breed of choice, the APBT, this happens all the time. The dog is mishandled as the folks do not understand that they are getting a high drive working dog and when it becomes dangerous…off to the vet for the last time, or dump the dog off with someone they know will take it or to the shelter. The fact that the breeder took this dog back IMO is wonderful! But lets not let this happen again…and how do you do this? You look and what happened, you break it down to what your mistakes were, you go to the best to FIX those mistakes and you become a better handler and a little more experienced for your trouble. Or you might have a major self discovery and learn you were never meant for this kind of dog and not get another. Either way you reduce risk for all involved, canine and human alike.

This is something I have learned here at Leerburg and this thread has given me a little more insight to the original lesson…so I have to say a valuable thread for my learning!!!

I believe this is exactly why "sharp" working bloodline GSDs should not be placed in homes with inexperienced dog handlers. The working bloodline GSDs are bred to be sharper and more aggressive because they were intended to be used for police type work. Placing a pup with drives that these dogs have in an inexperienced environment could result in a problem. I personally would not want to own a dog that would attack one of my friends who is innocently standing next to me. I don't believe that a properly trained working dog would do something like that unless the dog has a inherent temperment problem. Something may be wrong with the dog here and not with the handler. I'm sure that the breeder will evaluate this dog and determine what the best place for him will be. I wouldn't rule out that a dog that is an unprovoked attack-prone animal may not be trainable for any environment unfortunately. A dog like this may be too much of a liability for anyone to own other than an experienced professional trainer.

 Quote: christine garrit

The working bloodline GSDs are bred to be sharper and more aggressive because they were intended to

Way to make a sweeping ( and totally incorrect ) statement about an entire group of dogs there, Christine.

For your information, most Working lines GSD's are not "sharp".There are *small* subsets of the breed that tend to throw more sharpness in a dog, but these are considered undesirable by many outside of the PPD and Law Enforcement community.

And not all Working lines are bred with the prospect of being a PSD in mind - there's a huge area of sporting dogs that compete in SchH, or provide valuable services such and Search & rescue - do you honestly believe that handlers in those areas are looking for a "sharp" dog?


Please do a little research before you make such a broadly incorrect statement like that again.

 Quote: Christine Garrit

The working bloodline GSDs are bred to be sharper

Christine! I was just pondering how to reply to your post on the evils of tethering young pups indoors.... when this one caught my eye.

Welcome to the board, but maybe do a whole lot of reading rather than posting for a bit ....

Since the breeder had possession of the dog within 4 or 5 hours or the op's post asking for help..................

Christine, I have a sharp dog. With proper training there is no problem with her around people. Well, around smart people. <grin>

 Quote: christine garrit

I believe this is exactly why "sharp" working bloodline GSDs should not be placed in homes with inexperienced dog handlers. The working bloodline GSDs are bred to be sharper and more aggressive because they were intended to be used for police type work. Placing a pup with drives that these dogs have in an inexperienced environment could result in a problem. I personally would not want to own a dog that would attack one of my friends who is innocently standing next to me. I don't believe that a properly trained working dog would do something like that unless the dog has a inherent temperment problem. Something may be wrong with the dog here and not with the handler. I'm sure that the breeder will evaluate this dog and determine what the best place for him will be. I wouldn't rule out that a dog that is an unprovoked attack-prone animal may not be trainable for any environment unfortunately. A dog like this may be too much of a liability for anyone to own other than an experienced professional trainer.

I wouldn't go that far. GSDs from working lines make excellent family dogs. I would agree that it is possible the OPs dog might have issues of his own, not neccesarily the fault of the OPs. I think we can't be sure one way or the other without actually knowing the dog and the OP. I want to commend the OP for doing the responsible thing and returning the dog to the breeder. Kudos to the breeder too for stepping up to the plate and taking the dog back.

 Quote:

I noticed that someone mentioned that if you used the DD method (lifting the dog) he might start to hide the preliminary signs of aggression, and just bite or lunge. Maybe thats what happened.

It does, I've noticed that in my dutchie, I don't let him lunge, bark and growl at strangers on walks. He doesn't bark or growl just stands there all tall and stares at them with his head raised, tail out and ears down...I know he wants to bite them. No way I'd let people pet him.