Good post Matthew.

I have seen the "downhill fast" scenario you mention.

I have considered "maybe a Malinois someday", but I think you hit the nail on the head with how they need to be trained -- I think my training abilities are best paired with my working line GSD -- at least for now.

I so appreciate the beautiful picture of a well-trained working Malinois though...

Katie

Thanks Matthew, thats another good post on whats been a very good thread. I think I'm right there with you Katie, now that I've seen a couple and been able to compare some of the different breeds in training and trials they really impress me, but could I get to that point is the question.

Exactly Steve.

I don't have a problem with their activity requirements and between obedience and exercise I'm pretty sure I could live with a Mal.

But the finesse for training them in SchH or Mondio I am not really sure I have.

Katie

 Quote: matthew grubb

When working with Mal’s the drive has to be increased slowly so that the control can be worked into the dog in that same slow fashion. Most Mal’s require very little stimulation to raise drive through the roof. Too often trainers will apply the same techniques to Mal’s as they do with GSD’s to raise that drive. Often the end result is applying too much stimulation to a dog that needed very little to begin with….the scale gets so out of kilter that massive amounts of control now have to be applied to the dog.

Where things go down hill fast is when that same trainer says I’m going to force the control into the equation and now massive amounts of compulsion are used to bring the over stimulated drive under control. The Mal will learn eloquently how to fight through the pain to achieve drive satisfaction…. the eyes roll back into the head, the muscles tighten and quiver…. You now have a mess on your hands. It’s not easy resetting a brain that only has two marbles in it.

This is very true, though with my Mal her drive is through the roof right from the get go. We didn't have to build on it at all, it was there and there in spades.

When I first brought her out to the field both the helper and training director were all wanting to buy her off me as her drive to work, was pretty well embarrassing. She'd be at the side of the field jumping and straining to get to the decoy. I'd keep pulling her back but once the whip was cracked, stick rattled, or the gun fired she 'd want to go again. I kept having to put her up in the crate in the car as she was driving me NUTS!!

Her bitework was over the top as well, she go in with joyful abandon and work and would work until her tongue was hitting the ground if we let her. I was worried seeing my Malinois in bitework at first. I didn't start her until she was almost a year old with any type of guidance from an experience decoy and TD . Anything I had done with her before was farting around with toy tugs. Once we were working with a decoy I kept thinking I had to control her and be hard on her. My training director and the decoys basically said let her do what she does and it was almost 6 months before we started to put any OB on her at all .. even "outs" We just let her have at the tug and let her keep winning it. Once I've started putting obedience into the game it was gradual and it is still part of the game, she has been for the most part a pretty easy dog to train, even with my inexperience.

My Training director was saying it is easier to control a fire when it comes to drive with a dog than to try to start that fire. Most handlers and trainers don't have that luxury of time to spend on it. That's why you see lots of sports and PSD washouts all the time. You put a tug in front of a dog and crack a whip then the dog goes to sleep or plays 1/2 heartedly. Then the next dog in the same scenario the dog wants that same tug more than it wants anything else in the world. Which dog is going to take less time to train? The one that wants to work that's the one ..

 Quote: Katie O'Connor

I don't have a problem with their activity requirements and between obedience and exercise I'm pretty sure I could live with a Mal.

But the finesse for training them in SchH or Mondio I am not really sure I have.

I know I didn't have the finesse or experience. But this is where a good training director and club members come in. If you have the time and patience with guidance from people with experience. Doesn't matter if it from seminars or the Club's members and TD anybody dedicated to the training can do it.

not trying to hijack the thread, just seemed like a good place to jump in. I used to be a Handler, and missed my "beast" terribly! he was the type of mali (bear with me.. am going somewhere here )that was tall, long and 70 lb an ribby when i got him but worked/fed him to a still lean but veeeery muscular 90+lb! in 3 months. he would "hit" so hard on a decoy you could hear it across the park, yet if at the department, he were to see any of the ladies at a desk.. he would litterally sweet talk his way into laying on his back.. up on their lap!! it truly defied explanation!
My point is.. I was just blessed by my daughter with an amaaaaaazing 15 week old mali that looks like Cindy's Dante !
I had him potty and crate trained in a day, and after getting the Groundwork dvd, the 8 weeks to 8 months dvd, and the marker dvd (havent started that yet) I wanted to know what else to mebbe get? my first dog was already "made" so the raiseing of a mali puppy is.. hhmmmm... challenging??? he sits lays goes to the little doggies yard, outs the tug, and a few things i am forgetting.. all on command. then the whole "3 month old squirrel-on-meth" thing taks over, and i end up with what sounds to be the typical pingy-jumpy-mouthy thing goin on.
So... I guess what I am asking is.. considering age and breed.. what is probably "normal" and what aint?

Thanks for indulging me...

 Quote: patrick eville

.. I was just blessed by my daughter with an amaaaaaazing 15 week old mali that looks like Cindy's Dante ! .... after getting the Groundwork dvd, the 8 weeks to 8 months dvd, and the marker dvd (havent started that yet) I wanted to know what else to mebbe get? my first dog was already "made" so the raiseing of a mali puppy is.. hhmmmm... challenging??? considering age and breed.. what is probably "normal" and what aint?

Yes, this would be a hijack...

You want to make a new thread, probably here: http://leerburg.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/ubb/postlist/Board/14/page/1

Click "new topic" (upper left) and you can start you own topic.

Welcome to the board!

(hangs head, twirling toe in dirt..) Soooooorrreeee...

 Quote: Patrick Eville

(hangs head, twirling toe in dirt..) Soooooorrreeee...

We have more than enough toe-twirlers already.

But wait ..... you could be a head-hanger ..... like me!




And back to Pros and Cons of Mals.....