I've read Ed's article on marker training and have studied two of his DVDs that cover marker training (Basic Dog Obedience and Your Puppy 8 Weeks to 8 Months).

In Ed's article "Learning to Train with Markers", he says this: "In the first step of marker training we take a dog out and whenever it does something we like we simply say YES or CLICK the clicker and then offer a high value food treat. At this stage we never give a command and we neever ask the dog to do anything - we only mark a random behavior." (emphasis added)

However, later in the article Ed says "When we are ready to start training we need to pick an exercise to start marker training with. I like to start with the HAND TOUCH."

My question in reference to marker training is: Do I mark every random behavior initially, or do I choose a "random" behavior and only mark that until moving to the next "random behavior"?

For example, my puppy SITS so I mark it and he gets a treat. Then my puppy DIWNS so I mark it and he gets a treat. Then he barks so I mark and treat. Then he makes eye contact with me so I mark and treat.

OR

Do I only choose one "random behavior" and only mark that until he "gets it". If that's the case, when do I move on to my next random behavior?

If I choose the HAND TOUCH as my first exercise for marking, do I wait until the puppy can execute the exercise on command "TOUCH" before moving to another exercise?

Thanks in advance for the help.

Kurt, you can work on (mark & reward) more than 1 behavior at a time, but probably best not to work on them simultaneously during the same short session. The one exception might be eye contact. You want to mark and reward any eye contact your pup gives you... (I am referring to after you have 'loaded' the clicker; ie pup knows that a click means a reward is coming)

The 'touch' is easy, because if you do it the way Ed shows on his video, the pup can learn it well in just a couple of sessions. Once he's reliably coming to you when you put your hand out, then add the word (command) to the behavior.

You will be surprised how quickly a puppy can learn these behaviors...

It's up to you.

The reason we're picking random behaviors, is only so we can "load the click". We want any excuse to give the dog the click and the treat- that way the dog learns click=treat. We wait until the dog does some random behavior we like, just to avoid rewarding negative behavior, and to reenforce the idea of, "action, click, treat".

If you'd prefer to only reward one specific action, it *shouldn't* be an issue, although some dogs may get ahead of you in training, and think that the click/treat only follows that specific action. Picking multiple random behaviors avoids this trap- although not all dogs will fall into it.

Also, Kurt, you can start by "loading the marker" just by marking and then treating until, when you click and wait a second or two, the dog looks for the treat. Then you know he got it.

P.S. Oops, Alyssa posted while I was typing.

And her answer is better. I hadn't thought about accidentally rewarding something unwanted.

Got it.

This is my takeaway from this thread:

Initially, I'm going to mark and reward all random behavior to prevent the puppy from associating my mark to a singular, specific behavior. Once it's clear that the puppy understands that mark = reward, then I can move onto specific exercises, but probably only one exercise per training session.

Anything fundamentally wrong with that conclusion?

Yes, that sounds right! And start with some very small, really yummy treats (cheese or bits of meat, etc). This will make loading the clicker go very quickly!

 Quote: kurt smith

Do I only choose one "random behavior" and only mark that until he "gets it". If that's the case, when do I move on to my next random behavior?

I'm no expert on clicker training (trust me), but with my pup I would train one behaviour per session. I did one 4-5 minutes session per day, so on the first day I might mark eye contact until he "gets it" ie. understands which behaviour is being rewarded - which they usually get it quite quickly.

The second session I might mark the "sit" - I'm not giving a command, he's just trying to figure out which behaviour I want. The idea is after the dog "gets it" that is when you start adding the verbal command, "sit".

Initially:
- Behaviour
- Click & reward

Middle:
- Behaviour
- Command (as behaviour is being performed)
- Click & reward

Later:
- Command
- Behaviour
- Click & reward

That is how I read it.... I'm sure someone will correct me otherwise!

Have fun!

 Quote: angela burrell

Middle:
- Behaviour
- Command (as behaviour is being performed)
- Click & reward

Angela,

I actually had a question about how to introduce the command, so I'm glad you brought it up. I'm clear on when to do it - when the puppy demonstrates that he can perform the exercise reliably.

However, it was my understanding from Ed's DVDs and articles that the handler should give the command and wait for the puppy to go through his "bag of tricks" to actually problem solve the exercise.

For example, I give the command SIT and wait for my puppy to execute. He may DOWN, or BARK, or make EYE CONTACT, but if he does any of those, I just say "No... keep trying" until he gets it right, then mark and reward.

Am I wrong or is this just a different means to the same end?

That's what I do, if he doesn't do the one I asked for I just say 'no' in an encouraging voice - very different from my 'stop that or I'm gonna come over there' voice.

I love it when he tries all the different things he knows, he's so excited about doing it he can't wait to get the right one.

The only problem I have is if I haven't asked for anything yet - e.g when I'm getting myself prepared - he starts trying things so enthusiastically that it's an effort to get him to focus enough to listen to what I want. He's running all over the place going to his bed, coming around behind me to a heel or sitting and dropping to a down or barking, it gets a bit choatic for a while.

But I love that, it means he actually remembers the things I've taught and he's having fun with them, his tail wags so fast and he gets this happy look.