I allow my 4 year old son to play with my 6 mos old GSD (wow, is she 6 months already?!?). That said, my son is very good with dogs, and it is always supervised. My son is also big for his age, and they are always supervised.

If the dog does ANYTHING I consider inappropriate, ie, if she even looks like she's going to jump up on, mouth on, etc, with my son, she gets ONE verbal warning. If the behavior doesn't stop right then and there, she gets the scruff of her neck shaken until she yipes, and play-time is over.

My logic is, if a puppy is being exuberant towards another, older dog, what does the older dog do? He growls and says, "hey, go away pup". Well, when I give the verbal warning, that's MY growl. If the pup doesn't heed the growl, and back off, what does the older dog do? He'll nip/snap at the puppy to make it go away. Which is what the scruff shaking/scolding is.

It didn't take her more that two or three sessions like this, before she got the message.
If you aren't willing, or able, to do that, then IMO, I would keep the puppy and the toddler seperated 100% of the time. If the dog can't learn to behave around/toward the toddler, then it is a danger. A toddler knocked by a well-meaning, but misbehaving puppy, head-first into a coffee table or wall, could be a toddler with very serious injuries. I know you know this- just keep it foremost in your mind.

There is a big difference between correcting for mistakes in training, and in pack behavior.
Training, ie, sit, stay, down, etc- are the invention of people, and it takes a puppy time to learn the game. Therefore, you just keep reinforcing steps in the right direction, and avoid correction, so the puppy will keep trying to play the game.

Pack behavior, ie, how to behave towards members of the pack, is ingrained in a dog's psyche. It was BORN understanding how pack order works. It's not a game it has to learn, it's the dog's natural state of being.

When you correct your dog for not displaying proper pack behavior, you don't make it stop wanting to be a dog- not an option. You just make it want to avoid another correction. It understands what you are saying, because you're doing exactly what another dog would do.

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If the dog does ANYTHING I consider inappropriate, ie, if she even looks like she's going to jump up on, mouth on, etc, with my son, she gets ONE verbal warning. If the behavior doesn't stop right then and there, she gets the scruff of her neck shaken until she yipes, and play-time is over.

I could try that, I am not opposed to it, I would just have to be ready and literally be right there because my pup would immediately be too rough. She has knocked my granddaughter down a couple of times in the yard and immediately been all over her as if my granddaughter is another dog. Not nice. My pup isn't growling, she is just way too much, and all over her. She also wants any and all toys that are out and would definitely just snatch them hand and all. She lunges at any "thing" anyone has. If she walks by or can reach one of my gd's toys off the floor, I tell her leave it and she does, but it is momentarily and a completely different scenario if it is something my gd or anyone is holding. And she just goes nutso with anyone at her level. If I were to get on the floor to sit with her she would be all over me. Humm, so should I start with me and make her behave? Would that be a starting place?

I also have another dog that is very mild mannered and I can NOT let Justice play with her. Period. They are always separated. The pup is way too rough and my other dog runs to me as if she is saying "HELP". My other dog, btw, is great with my granddaughter and would never jump on her. It isn't her nature. She is only a year and a half old but a totally different dog. She has never in her life growled and is not in any manner aggressive.

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If the dog can't learn to behave around/toward the toddler, then it is a danger. A toddler knocked by a well-meaning, but misbehaving puppy, head-first into a coffee table or wall, could be a toddler with very serious injuries. I know you know this- just keep it foremost in your mind.

Absolutely! NO dog is worth a child. And this gd tends to be very clumsy, so if she is tripped then the pup is all over her which makes matters all that much worse.

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There is a big difference between correcting for mistakes in training, and in pack behavior.
Training, ie, sit, stay, down, etc- are the invention of people, and it takes a puppy time to learn the game. Therefore, you just keep reinforcing steps in the right direction, and avoid correction, so the puppy will keep trying to play the game.

Pack behavior, ie, how to behave towards members of the pack, is ingrained in a dog's psyche. It was BORN understanding how pack order works. It's not a game it has to learn, it's the dog's natural state of being.

Right! I never thought of that distinction before. Very good thought. OB work is a teaching/learning experience, you cannot discipline for ignorance. Pack order is inherent and you can/must relate on that level.

I would recommend this:

First, take the pup outside, and play with her until she is just exhausted. Play with her until she lays down and acts disinterested, and then walk her around the yard once or twice for good measure. Totally tucker the little pup out (not the point of injury, obviously, but you get the picture).

Then, take little pup inside, and sit on the floor with her. She'll probably get a tad stupid at first, because you are down at her level. Encourage her to settle down, stroke her and speak in a low voice. I tend to say "Easy" to my pup to settle her, but that's just me. You could say "Dishwasher", and it'd work.

Once the pup is nice and calm, shorten up the leash so that the dog basically can't move from where ever she is laying down. Have your granddaughter CALMLY come sit next to YOU. Your body should be between the puppy and your GD.

Again, the pup will probably try to get stupid. Just wait it out.

Once the pup is laying nicely next to you, let your granddaughter reach over and begin slowly stroking the puppy.
By this time, the puppy should already be getting used to whatever "calm" word you have been using all along.

Once the puppy has a few calm, mellow pets from your GD, without spazzing out, end the session, and go give the pup a nice treat/reward.

Do this a once or twice a day, and you'll start to see results.

From there, you can work your way up to having the puppy and Granddaughter sit in the middle, between you and your granddaughter.

Also, at 4, your granddaughter isn't too young to learn not to run around the puppy, not to put her face near the puppy's, etc.

Great idea, I will do that next time my GD comes over, she spends a few days a week with me. In the meantime I will do it myself with the pup.

I am not quite sure just HOW I am going to get her that tired out.

 Quote: Barbara Fisher

I am not quite sure just HOW I am going to get her that tired out.

How about some positive training? Marker training is so much fun for both the human and the dog, and it's tiring to the dog's brain.


P.S. I mean the marker training as a great way to teach new behaviors and tire the pup as a bonus -- not, of course, to replace any of the work outlined.

I know this is called "Clicker Training" (and it comes with a clicker!), but it's marker training, for which you can use a clicker or a verbal marker.

http://leerburg.com/979.htm

This inexpensive little book starts at the very beginning, with loading the marker, or teaching the dog the meaning of the marker with some teeny high-value treats, on page 7.

Learning something new (and that's what marker training is excellent for) is a brain workout.

Wonderful! I will do that and that book is just what I was wishing I had.

Thank you!