My family and I just got a Boxer puppy that is about 11 weeks old. It's our first puppy in about 13 years. Recently lost our 12 year male Rottweiler. I have fed Canidae for quite a while and believed it to be an all ages food, as it claims. The vet told me that I should consider feeding him something like Iams puppy food until he's an adult because recent research shows that many large breeds can actually get too much calcium from foods that aren't specifically formulated for puppies and that the extra calcium can cause problems. She wasn't familiar with what's in Canidae and all the information that's out there, to be perfectly honest, is making my head spin. So should I consider feeding something else, or will Canidae be o.k.? And before anyone reccomends a home made diet for my dog, I totally respect your opinions, but it's not for me. My rottie lived to 12 on Canidae and I have another Lab/Australian shepherd cross that is 14. Neither have ever had anything but dry dog food.

Thanks,
Kordell

Canidae is not at all a bad food for a growing pup, but I have always preferred a grain free baked food such as Innova EVO which has 0 grain, or something similar - wellness makes one.
Iams is a really terrible "junk" food with some pretty bad ingredients, and even worse quality control. There are a lot of foods out there, and it is easy to understand the spinning of heads over figuring it all out!
I understand not wanting to do raw - it's not for everyone and that is fine. A grain free food would be my choice in that case.
As far as recommendations on food, I have found that many (but not all mind you) Vets are clueless about the nutrition aspect of dogs, but good luck getting them to realize that! The fact that Iams was recommended would make me never ask this Vet for nutrition/food questions again, and I would only stick to medical stuff from now on. JMHO.
While you learn what food has what and all that stuff (there is a TON of info here on the forums about nearly every food out there, as well as plenty of Ebooks on the subject, and there is even a recommended feeding list of organic kibble: http://leerburg.com/all-natural%20kibble.htm) I personally would recommend the Innova EVO - comparable in price to Canidae, and a great food for life as well. Plus, no grains and fillers (even Canidae has some) That being said, Canidae is on the list of recommended foods.
this is a good article to read up on to get an better idea of feeding and nutrition. It is an article on raw, but there is a lot of info in there that will help out with a kibble diet (and info specifically on pups and feeding) as well: http://leerburg.com/pdf/feedingrawdiet.pdf

My personal view is that the majority of vets don't give good advice about which food is really good. Sure, most dogs will do o.k. with crap-in-a-bag, but. . .

I'd prefer to rely more on Ed's 30 yrs experience and 350+ litters. One of the links listed above doesn't work because of an extra ")" - try this list of foods and these articles.

I agree with the no-grain advice and supplement my raw feeding with Innova EVO and Orijen. I'd use those if I ever stopped feeding raw.

JMO

Mike

I feed raw most of the time. 99.2% of the time but when I dont I feed.
Instince it is a prarie based product.
It is there grain free kibble I am not sure why ed has not added it to his list but it is great for me.
My gang can go from raw to kibble back to raw with no problem on this food.

Well I cant get the link now but here is anoth thread where I asked about it

http://naturesvariety.com/content.lasso?...2BFABUGn25C548C
This is the raw but if you back track through the site you will find there other 2 kinds of foods

The one thing I totally ignore my vets on is diet and food recommendations. I don't even discuss it with them. If they mention anything I am neutral to it, I just let em give their sales pitch and get on with life.

I used to feed raw. Raw here in Belgium seemed undoable, but I recently found a supplier for raw ingredients so I am debating going back to it. I better make up my mind soon because my kibble is on the last bag. 1 bag = 9 days for my dogs, so that gives me a week to figure it out.

Here, I feed Orijen grain-free kibble. I would always choose a grain-free kibble if feeding kibble, that's not a point I will compromise on. If you compare the price I pay for Orijen ($103/bag or $3.45/lb) to other brands here such as Hills crap-in-a-bag-formula ($99 a bag or $3.00/lb) its really not that much different in pricing. The extra is worth it for the better food.

As for the puppy vs adult foods. If the kibble is for "all life stages" then it shouldnt be an issue. But what I don't get, is that a raw NATURAL diet is made up almost entirely of chicken and chicken bones. Thats a lot of protein and calcium, yet pups do absolutely fine on the raw diet. So, why is it that high protein and calcium kibble diets are taboo for pups? What is the difference?

To me it's all just marketing. A reason to get you to buy a puppy food from one brand vs. an all life stages food from another brand that doesn't offer a puppy formula.

I know that some brands have "Large Breed Puppy" formulas that are IDENTICAL to "Large Breed Adult" formulas, just with a different label so that people don't buy small-breed puppy food for their large breed puppy because the bag says "puppy" on it.

Thanks for the replys. I actually had to see a different vet than my normal one because she was on vacation and I needed to get him in there to make sure he was in good health. My normal vet is very good. I will look for Innova or Orijen next for the next bag of food.

Kordell

>>But what I don't get, is that a raw NATURAL diet is made up almost entirely of chicken and chicken bones. Thats a lot of protein and calcium, yet pups do absolutely fine on the raw diet. So, why is it that high protein and calcium kibble diets are taboo for pups? What is the difference?<<

You know, Mike, I was wondering the exact same thing the other day when there was a radio interview on NPR with Nicholas Dodman. He was quoting some studies about the percentages of protein (in kibble and canned food, I'm sure) as related to aggression in dogs (I belive, dog/human aggression), with the higher protein supposedly being related to higher aggression in dogs that are aggressive. Then there are the recommendations about high protein foods (kibble) not being good for larger breed pups, supposedly making their bones grow too fast.

There must be something different about relative proteins in kibble vs. raw? It's kind of mind-boggling to me. And, of course, correlation doesn't equate with cause and effect.

leih merigian

Maybe the difference between the raw protein and kibble protein is the fact that the kibble protein is COOKED. Just to state the obvious -- cooked and raw are not the same. The whole nature of the food is changed when it is cooked.
Personaly I can see a huge nutritional difference when I drink homogenized/pasteurized store milk vs. when I drink raw milk. Store milk just makes me feel full/bloated, thirsty, and causes heart burn and skin problems, I can practically live on raw milk, my appetite is satisfied and I feel good.
If the same principle applies to dogs and their meat I can certainly see why the kibble would cause problems with puppies and dogs, even though there is the same amount of protein and calcium in raw and cooked.

Any vet that would suggest you feed your dog Iams, has lost the right to make dietary suggestions for your dog, IMO.

Just a little update. I brought the pup to my normal (she was out of town the first visit and it was not my normal vet who reccomended the Iams) vet last week for his next round of shots. The first thing she asked was what I was feeding. I told her Canidae. She asked what the breeder had him on. I told her Purina puppy chow. She said "O.K. the Canidae is good food, but you see how his lower joints are so big? I bet they weren't that big before you switched the food?" I hadn't noticed. She said the vet feeding the crap food and then me switching instantly to a much better, high protein food was giving his bones a huge boost and the tendons in his joints couldn't keep up. She told my to give 2/3 Canidae and 1/3 puppy chow. She said it won't take long and his tendons will catch up and then you can slowly ween him off the puppy chow and totally to Canidae. Sure enough after a week of doing that, the swelling in his joints has gone down some. She said that this does happen in large breeds sometimes when they're switched from a bad food to a good food that quickly when they're this young, but agreed that Iams and most all of the mass produced dog foods are junk. Just thought you all would find that interesting.

Kordell