I have an almost 4 month old GSD pup from German lines, and I think his temperament and intelligence are the most I could have asked for. I am, however, a (sort of) novice owner, who's not been around GSD's since my family owned several when I was growing up. I had aspirations for doing protection and/or SchH training with Roscoe, but I'm not finding much available around these parts (SW Missouri).

I have several of Ed's videos, including the bite training for puppies. Roscoe loves the puppy tug and seems to have great prey drive. My problem is, he's just started in a puppy OB class in which the teacher discourages things like roughhousing and tug-of-war. I certainly want him to be a friendly pup, which he is, but she (the instructor) is discouraging any bite/protection training, telling me it would be a huge insurance liability, yet she has no background in training of that sort and is more of a companion dog/tracking trainer.

I think I'd have to drive 3 hours to get to a Sch club (Tulsa, St. Louis or K.C.) to even have him evaluated for potential. Any suggestions?? I am only working part-time right now, so I felt it was a great time to get and train a puppy, but she has made me feel that only a LEO should be doing this type of thing....thanks for any help!

Keep doing whatever Ed's videos tell you to do.Most trainers dont know what they are talking about and they always are critical about things they dont understand.If you have lots of time to train you oughta get Flinks tape on drive focus and grip, and then drop the puppy classes and start building the dog the correct way to reach your goals.

If you're attending OB classes based on AKC training, you are going to run into alot of philosophical differences between Schutzhund training with drives and the average AKC complusion type training. You'll either have to make compromises during the training which may hinder your dog down the line, or consider talking with your trainer and tell her your end goals for the dog to get her to understand your need for picking and chosing what type of training and drive building you will use with your dog.
That said.....your trainer does show a real lack of knowledge when she suggests that only LEO's should do Schutzhund. I still compete in AKC OB and I am exposed to this type of ignorance constantly.
Just my two cents worth...

Dear Lisa,

I also live in that part of Missouri, and you are so right. The Schutzhund trainers around here are far and few between. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> I was waiting for the weather to get better here and I would like to make a trip up to Tom Rose's Place. I would like to have him do an eval on my GSD. Please PM me for more information.

Sincerely, Joyce M. Burrows :rolleyes:

Don't listen to one word she says regarding playing tug or anything else regarding protection or Schutzhund. Take what you can for the obedience training, if you choose to, but just smile and ignore the rest.

Tug of war, in itself, DOES NOT ENCOURAGE AGGRESSION! I hate it when I see that crap. Encouraging aggression encourages aggression, playing tug can become a great game and a super motivator for training. It also gives a dog with the tickle for it a positive outlet for his energy and desire to bite.

I appreciate everyone's replies, which seem to confirm my instinct to take the local advice with a grain of salt.

I took one of my pups to a "puppy kindergarden" class a couple of years ago. They were teaching a little basic OB to the pups. sit down heel come, etc. I went in the first night, and told the instructor that my main goal was just socialization and she was fine with that. She did tell the class that tug-of-war and such was NO GOOD because it taught the pups to challange you, but I just ignored her and tugged away.... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Well, actually, ALL dog trainers need taking with a pinch of salt. Open your eyes and ears wide and never be afraid to ask why. The good ones can give you a coherent why.

There's a very big distinction between structured playing at tug of war (which is what conditioning for Schutzhund and related sports are about) and unstructured allowing puppy to be a terror (which is what pet trainers are worried about).

The trouble is, many many pet trainers do not have anything approaching an understanding of drive theory (which isn't perfect exactly, but is a very useful theory for how dogs tick). Or of the various uses that dogs are put to and an appreciation of how those are built up.

It's easy to say 'cookie if you do as I want, jerk if you don't' and most dogs will learn adequately if you're consistent enough with such a programme, but if you understand what makes a dog work and can motivate them, you can really go far. I suppose that because truly good protection work is dependent on a dog working willingly even in adverse conditions, the smart trainers are much more aware of their dogs' needs and abilities and more willing to accomodate it.

I'd be inclined to say get Ed's videos (so long as you're consistent, it's not rocket science to put good basic manners on your dog and lay a good foundation for future work) and take the 3 hour drive twice a month or so -- if the club there is a welcoming and helpful one.

Dei.

Hi everyone. I'm sort of a newbie with SCH but does have some training ex with AKC types of OB except that I does it motivationally. Now trying to pick up SCH methods.

All I can say about compulsion type of OB training is a lot of time unecessary and confuses the dog all the times. This will usually translate into slow reaction to a command. You can really see that in the way the dog work and the attitude shown.

For easy understanding, would you like to be punished by the boss everytime you do a mistake that you dont even know off in the first place or would you prefer that the boss discuss it with you and suggest a different way for success? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Compulsion should only be used sparingly for fine tuning when the maturity is there and when the dog 100% understand the command but choses to be malicious. Nevertheless always give a big discounts when deciding if the dog already understands a command. The chances is he doesn't <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> . This will build the bond and yanks does not.