Hello everyone, I am new to dog training and have been pouring over the Leerburg site for that last couple of weeks. I must admit that I have learned quite a bit.

I am contemplating purchasing the pack structure and basic obedience DVD's (and possibly the e-colloar one). However, I have not seen recommendations on what equipment to add to the DVDs (and with the magnitude of this site, it is certainly possible that I just missed it). I realize this may be dependant on our situation, so I'll attempt to give a detailed account of our scenario.

We have had a female, spayed, Shiba Inu for the past 4 years or so. She is 6 now. In the beginning she was a little bit 'growly' but we (whether this is good or not, I don't know) alpha rolled her a couple of times and it stopped - except for when she was around other dogs which was not too often. That being said there were a few times right when we got her that I saw her play nice with other dogs... so I figured that if she was introduced slowly it would go okay.

A few weeks ago, we decided to adopt a 3 year old neutered Shiba male. We did a bit of research and while I am sure we didn't do everything right, I feel like we did a pretty good job of introducing them. We first let them sleep with each other's blanket and we'd keep them separate playing with one and then another so that they could get used to each other's scent. Then we let her approach his crate - which induced a few growls but we gave verbal corrections and possible a collar pop (although I'm not sure if we are even doing that properly). From there we proceeded to take them to neutral territory (where neither dog had ever been in life) and introduce them on leash. That went well... only a snarl or two which was corrected. Then we tried the front and back yards and finally our home. All had similar results. There was one point where he tried the dominant posture where he shouldered up to her and tried to press down, but we put an end to that immediately. We definitely kept them supervised but all seemed well, even getting them to sit and lie down in each other's presence. Later they did get into one fight when we were eating supper - in retrospect it is probably because we had food out (although neither are allowed to eat our food). We broke it up and thankfully nobody was hurt. Since then, we've done several other introductions - always supervised, always on leash, mostly inside. They mostly seem to ignore one another - although every once in a while I'll see him staring at her which I stop. We've learned that our girl seems to mainly be low on confidence - she seems to be unsure of things and tolerates him being around but often will slip off and go into the other room. I do want to point out that we've been very affectionate towards them both and tried to make each encounter a positive experience.

All of the above being said, both are fairly well behaved as far as pets who've not really been trained go (treat training for basic obedience is all we'd done and not too heavily - I am not sure about their past other than treat training and, for our girl who knows what since she'd originally been bought as a show dog but ended up being too small). I feel fairly confident that neither fully respects us as pack leader (although our girl seems more obedient). I'd love to get to a point with them where they would play and enjoy one another and would obey our commands all of the time. Off leash would be cool (some say this is impossible with shibas, but Ed's info seems to indicate good training would be breed independent, so I am given hope), but simply not pulling on the leash would be an improvement.

Lastly, I am certain everyone here is a fan of Ed's training which of what I have seen makes the most sense to me, but I might ask if anyone has an opinion on Don Sullivan's The Perfect Dog system? (My brother who is by no means an expert but has raised and bred many dogs is considering purchasing it) From what I can tell (its very much an infomercial) he sells a DVD set with a modified prong collar and varying length leads and is against treat training, giving me the impression he may be a yank and crank trainer.

Thank you in advance - sorry for the long post!

Ryan Godsey

Welcome!

I would break this down into two or three posts, for future reference.

You will find that a long post with several issues will often be passed over by experienced trainer/handlers who try to answer as many questions for as many posters per visit as they can.

I can say that ordering the Basic Ob, Pack Structure, and Dominant Dog* videos may be your best bet for the first order, though.

And have you seen the "How to Introduce Dogs" article?

I'd read up on marker training, too, and probably order some tiny soft marker rewards** and maybe a long cotton line*** for recall training (if needed). You will never go wrong ordering a long line. Also, a bait bag: http://leerburg.com/736.htm


You have two crates and flat collars?


P.S. You do NOT want this: (( Later they did get into one fight when we were eating supper - in retrospect it is probably because we had food out (although neither are allowed to eat our food).))

Crates!





* http://leerburg.com/301.htm

** http://leerburg.com/treat.htm

*** http://leerburg.com/729.htm

Connie,

Thanks for responding and thanks for the advice! I have read the how to introduce dogs article but it was after we did most of this stuff. I've also either listened to or read most of the other freebies. The only problem with that is information overload - seems like I'm not sure where to start, hence my post.

We do have two crates and both have flat, nylon with plasic buckle collars. We really haven't enforced crate training with the girl (Hers is a travel style and I'm not sure if it is big enough) - once we could trust her to free range, we let her do that. Possibly a mistake, but I am wondering - is there a point when you only crate at night and let them loose in the house during the day? Maybe I'm being naive, but I've always liked the aspect of pets being around and us enjoying each other's company.

Lastly, today I tried feeding for 15 minutes instead of keeping food out. Right after I fed him (didn't eat everything), I leash walked him to the back door and he caught site of our girl and got aggressive. I corrected him, but he didn't seem to mind me very well - in fact, his behavior seems to be degrading. Is he challenging for the leadership position?

Thanks again!

Ryan

I'm not as much an expert as others here Ryan, but I would say it is mainly due to lack of pack structure and pack leadership. It's hard to tell without a more detailed description of his specific behavior. I would put my money on pack structure. I would highly recommend Ed's Pack structure DVD. It sounds like this will solve some of your issues specifically and if not, at least give you the ground work necessary to do so.

It's also possible that you didn't correct at the right level. Having said that, you're still going to want to go through the pack structure stuff before you get really into corrections. Ed's DVD is excellent. I think it should be mandatory for ALL dog owners, jmho.

Well, thats my take on the situation anyway. Like I said, some of the much wiser dog trainers around here may have different or better info for you. Good luck! Tony

OK, so I am thinking Pack Structure and Basic Obedience are a must. It seems his other behavior is pack structure related as well - However, after reading the articles on Dominant and Agressive behavior, it looks like the Dominant/Agressive DVDs would be very useful/helpful information. I was considering the e-collar video, but I'm getting the impression that might be something better tackled later after getting a handle on the above DVDs? Any other opinions on which of those Dom/Agg vs Remote collar to get first?

My main question now is do I need both prong and dominant dog collars (aside from using the DD as a prong backup since those apparently will be a different size than a DD for training) for both dogs to effectively go through those DVDs? I am trying to avoid getting the DVDs and then having to make another order to get the necessary equipment.

Thanks one and all!

Ryan

Ryan, I'd get the videos you mentioned and start training. I'd separate the dogs.

As Tony said: Having said that, you're still going to want to go through the pack structure stuff before you get really into corrections. Ed's DVD is excellent. I think it should be mandatory for ALL dog owners, jmho.

The best thing for now is separation -- and yes, crating.

Freedom of the house is a privilege for later. So is "enjoying each other's company." Allowing either now is really jumping the gun.

Thanks again for the response - I've been out of town and unable to respond, but I did get the message. I have ordered the DVDs and am eagerly awaiting their arrival - Should be here tomorrow which will prove for a fun weekend, I am sure!