Kim Ward wrote 11/25/2008 07:42 PM Escape Artist #217581 - 11/25/2008 07:42 PM
Kim Ward Webboard User Reg: 10-31-2008 Posts: 103 Loc: Wisconsin Offline	We are haviing a bit of trouble with our GSD puppy continually breaking out of crates (and pens.) The first time was when she jumped out of a puppy pen (4 feet high! Ouch!) when she was 2-3 months old. Luckily she wasn't hurt. She got into the garbage and had a few loose stools. Luckily nothing poisinous though, paper towels and stuff. We moved to a plastic crate which has worked... up until now, at around 7 months old. She got out today and chewed a few things. Not horribly valueable or hazordous to her health but still... We also have a house on a lake 2 hours north of here and go up there practically every weekend. We have a wire crate up there that she flattened the walls of. It was actually quite humorous seeing the door knocked down like that. She popped a soda can that time. We were only gone a couple hours luckily. I was just wondering if you guys had any suggestions. Preferably not Leerburg as they are pretty expensive. Thanks! Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new. -Albert Einstein
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Sarah Morris wrote 11/25/2008 07:55 PM Re: Escape Artist [Re: Kim Ward ] #217582 - 11/25/2008 07:55 PM
Sarah Morris Webboard User Reg: 08-29-2006 Posts: 2324 Loc: Central Coast, California Offline	If you have metal works company in your town, perhaps they can construct a crate for you? *Might* be somewhat cheaper. You're going to need a big gun, heavy duty crate and I don't see any way around that. I know they are expensive but in the long run it's cheaper than replacing damaged/destroyed items or paying a major vet bill. God forbid, you could also, easily, have a dead dog on your hands. True
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Melissa Thom wrote 11/26/2008 12:02 AM Re: Escape Artist [Re: Sarah Morris ] #217638 - 11/26/2008 12:02 AM
Melissa Thom Webboard User Reg: 12-04-2007 Posts: 2781 Loc: Upper Left hand corner, USA Offline	A really really heavy duty crate with a three part door lock would be my first place to start. Petmate makes a nice one called the traditional. The main thing I'd look for is the model with the knob you turn with a lock as opposed to the pinch release. It's way way more solid. A quality crate like this will likely cost you about $200 The other option I like is a stainless steel dog box similar to the steel boxes leerburg sells. Only difference is that usually these have an interior diamond steel kick board for the door. This really throws dogs off because there is nothing for them to grab with their teeth. This will likely be where you end up at about $400 - 600. Your dog at this point has learned escalating will get him out of the crate when you're gone. You need to set him up to fail in this effort. This will get worse... much worse before it gets better. Best of luck.
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Kim Ward wrote 11/26/2008 06:29 AM Re: Escape Artist [Re: Melissa Thom ] #217642 - 11/26/2008 06:29 AM
Kim Ward Webboard User Reg: 10-31-2008 Posts: 103 Loc: Wisconsin Offline	Melissa, do you have a link to that? Thanks! Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new. -Albert Einstein
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Melissa Thom wrote 11/26/2008 06:49 AM Re: Escape Artist [Re: Kim Ward ] #217643 - 11/26/2008 06:49 AM
Melissa Thom Webboard User Reg: 12-04-2007 Posts: 2781 Loc: Upper Left hand corner, USA Offline	Yes will pm shortly  Quote: Kim Ward Melissa, do you have a link to that? Thanks!
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Angela Burrell wrote 11/26/2008 09:31 AM Re: Escape Artist [Re: Melissa Thom ] #217651 - 11/26/2008 09:31 AM
Angela Burrell Webboard User Reg: 05-10-2006 Posts: 2273 Loc: Ontario, Canada Offline	Cindy and Ed have recommended in the past to try no-bark collars on separation anxiety dogs. (Chewing, destroying your stuff and breaking out of crates is an anxiety behaviour) They say that dogs who are breaking out of a crate are usually also barking and whining at the same time. The collar works to make them calm. You can also try calming products like Relora or melatonin (to deal with anxiety) in conjunction with buying a heavy duty crate (to manage the anxiety symptoms). You should also do Separation Anxiety training with the dog if at all possible, to cure the cause of the behaviour and not just manage the symptom. I believe Connie has dealt successfully with this issue in the past, as have other forum members. I have not dealt with SA per se but do have very nervous and anxious rescue dogs who have been helped a great deal by Relora in conjunction with positive obediece training.
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Lee Waldron wrote 11/26/2008 10:16 AM Re: Escape Artist [Re: Kim Ward ] #217664 - 11/26/2008 10:16 AM
Lee Waldron Webboard User Reg: 10-17-2007 Posts: 39 Loc: Bardstown, Ky Offline	Quote: Kim Ward We are haviing a bit of trouble with our GSD puppy continually breaking out of crates (and pens.) The first time was when she jumped out of a puppy pen (4 feet high! Ouch!) when she was 2-3 months old. Luckily she wasn't hurt. She got into the garbage and had a few loose stools. Luckily nothing poisinous though, paper towels and stuff. We moved to a plastic crate which has worked... up until now, at around 7 months old. She got out today and chewed a few things. Not horribly valueable or hazordous to her health but still... We also have a house on a lake 2 hours north of here and go up there practically every weekend. We have a wire crate up there that she flattened the walls of. It was actually quite humorous seeing the door knocked down like that. She popped a soda can that time. We were only gone a couple hours luckily. I was just wondering if you guys had any suggestions. Preferably not Leerburg as they are pretty expensive. Thanks! Kim, another option that might work is to get an e-collar(they sell these through leerburg,and less expensive than a heavy duty crate) on the dog and go through your routine that you do when you are leaving to trick the him into believing your gone. Go outside and listen for him to start to make noise then correct him with the collar. Start at a low setting and work your way up if you need to. I would use the continuous button on this one for 3-5 seconds. Wait a little, if you hear noise again, repeat and increase the level of correction. Another benefit of this is you will have an e-collar that can used for other training issues. Lee
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Kim Ward wrote 11/26/2008 02:31 PM Re: Escape Artist [Re: Lee Waldron ] #217718 - 11/26/2008 02:31 PM
Kim Ward Webboard User Reg: 10-31-2008 Posts: 103 Loc: Wisconsin Offline	Angela, I don't think she has seperation anxiety, per se. She's very independent. I think she's... Claustrophobic, for lack of a better word. When she gets out, the damage is minimal, so I think she just sleeps or wanders around. She also desn't whine in the crate a whole lot. Lee, I do have an e-collar already, I got it about a week ago so we are still desensitizing her to the collar or however you spell it. I'm not sure that would really work w/ her anyway, because she doesnn't make a whole lot of noise to the point were you can hear it outside. She just whines at a medium level at sometimes even not that. Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new. -Albert Einstein
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Heidi Moen wrote 11/27/2008 03:55 PM Re: Escape Artist [Re: Kim Ward ] #217841 - 11/27/2008 03:55 PM
Heidi Moen Webboard User Reg: 03-23-2008 Posts: 44 Loc: Michigan Offline	I personally would hold off on any shock collars, but that is up to you, I was always taught shock collars or e-collars are the last resort, again that is your personal choice. I would work with a trainer to find out what is going on. Also, what food are you feeding the pup? Good holistic nutritious food helps. Also the melatonin was a good suggestion, I use that with my storm freaked dog and it is great for behavior retraining (he is not bad now at all). I have an escape artist and have put him to work, lots of exercise and stuff to challenge his mind. That seems to help some, at 6, he still gets out when he is bored. I did invest in a heavy duty crate and that has slowed him down. Good luck, it is not easy having a Houdinin :0)
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