Lucy had an accident in the house this morning. ABSOLUTELY my fault. I cleaned it up and took the paper towel and Lucy outside to put the towel in her pee spot. She smelled it, and hit the ground on her belly and tried to crawl away from me. I called her name twice (mistake I know) then I just walked up to her, put my hands on her and put pressure strokes down her shoulders and sides until she relaxed. We then walked AWAY from the towel and explored for a few minutes and went inside. Repeat of the same behavior and I stroked her again and put pressure on her shoulders (she likes this) and she relaxed.

WOW! I have NEVER seen a reaction like this. This poor girl has so many issues. (I do NOT regret adopting her. I really believe she has potential and I WILL get through to her that she can trust me with touching her.) She will not allow her paws or her muzzle to be touched...although I can now lift a lip and do a quick peek without her snapping. With the Marker DVD, I am trying to desensitize her like Cindy did with Rush and allow me to touch her paws and muzzle.

I think I need to rule out any physical problems. I am going to have her teeth cleaned (teeth good, gums red), and have them check her paws, lips, ears, etc. while she is under. No way can they do a thorough check while she is awake. She has a growth on her back that needs checked. I am also going to have them do a needle aspiration of her bladder and check for bacteria.

She has let me brush her finally and she is one big flake, so she goes to my groomer Saturday. The groomer is great with Hambone (sings to him), her family raised beagles, and she is just wonderful with dogs, so Lucy is in good hands.

I asked the vets to consult and decide what supplements Lucy needs for itching and flaking. (Another reason I need her checked out while she is under for her teeth cleaning).

Now, ANY suggestions on how I can help this little dog begin to trust me? She does act excited when I come home, she is willing to be with me, she enjoys walking with me (coming along nicely), but I don't want to go to fast or do the wrong thing and blow it.

I have never had a dog with so many issues and I am at a loss on what is Most important to start with. You all have had more experience. What would be your first decision, how would I go about making a training plan?

I really think you're doing so great with her!!!! She is so lucky to be with you.

In terms of building trust - I may be missing something, but I honestly think a lot of it is time. Time, and positive activities together. Keep being there for her, being calm, being her partner and her leader, and I think it will come. It takes awhile for them to settle and other issues she has will just layer on top of that.

The only other thing I can think of - I did this build Luc's confidence when I adopted him, b/c he was fairly overwhelmed with a completely new, non-caged environment, and I still do it, is I picked on things that he was good at and that he enjoyed (hiking, running) and we did those lots. No pressure, but we'd get out and do them and enjoy them, and I was always full of praise and really positive so he knew that he was doing a great job.

It built his confidence, but it also taught him that I would always be there for him, and help him through the tougher stuff (creeks - he was terrified of water; sticks; he was scared of them too, and a myriad of other little random things), and that we'd do the tougher stuff together and that he could do those things successfully. He learnt to start looking to me during things that were more difficult for him and then he learnt to just do them.

Which, maybe blah blah blah, but can you do something similar with Lucy? Maybe some fun tracking to take advantage of her nose? Stuff that you can do and work on together to build a partnership/trust, and that will also build her confidence.

 Quote: jennifer mullen

In terms of building trust - I may be missing something, but I honestly think a lot of it is time. Time, and positive activities together. Keep being there for her, being calm, being her partner and her leader, and I think it will come. It takes awhile for them to settle and other issues she has will just layer on top of that.

I'll ditto all that. I'm not experienced with what you're going through Jo, but my first reaction to your post was that you both simply need to take your time with each other and the trust will follow. It seems like you have a great "plan" in terms of groundwork and marker training, so as long as you take it slow, I would expect that you'll see a lot of relaxation and progress with Lucy simply by letting her completely get comfortable with you and her new environment/routine. The more instances she has to witness your calm, fair leadership the less likely she'll be to revert back to that place of fear she obviously lived in for so long. It'll take time, but her fearful memories will start to be replaced with trust in you. It probably helps that she's now also a spectator to your care and work with Hambone - he should be a great model for her.

I also second what a lucky dog Lucy is to have found you - you're doing wonderful things for her and I've no doubt that her recognition of that will grow and grow along with your relationship with her.

~Natalya

 Quote: Jo Harker

Now, ANY suggestions on how I can help this little dog begin to trust me?

 Quote: Jennifer Mullen

time.

Absolutely. Apart from everything you have been doing, the only thing ELSE you need to do is give her TIME. And not two weeks, or even a month. I would say at least six months.

Our rescue has noted that after a foster has been in a new home for a year, their true, trusting personality is in full force, with no trace of their old hang-ups. I have to agree, as I have had a few long term fosters (over 1 year) and the adopters I have kept in touch with all agree.

If only we could talk to dogs, and explain to them that the way things are now is different than the way things were for them. The only thing we can do, is wait until they realize it on their own. Just keep on doing what you are doing. She will, eventually, figure out that you are different than the people in her past life and will trust you.

You will notice her getting better, but I'd say around the 6 month mark you will have real progress and by a year, no one would ever know you didn't have her her whole life. (That is my prediction!)

Hey Jo,

don't forget, although it may seem like enough time for her to trust you, it has been only 3 weeks. Just be patient. She will DEFINATELY come around. I would think she's probably just playing it safe for now and reserving any true bonding until she gets over her trust issues.

I think you are doing great. She's going to have set backs because unfortunately due to you not knowing her past, there's going to be time's you go to do something with her that are going to cause her some distress due to her past.

Now, don't take this the wrong way, but touching her when she was in the cowering state (imo) might not have been the best thing to do. Trust me, I know it's hard to not comfort or touch them when we see our four legged kids are in distress, but it just enforces to her that what she is doing is a good thing. Tucker has a bad reaction to fireworks...he'll cower, shake, and act like his world is coming to an end and it takes every bit of strenght I have to not touch or comfort him. And it works. I just ignore his behaviour and go on with my routine. And me being that way gets through to him. It's like a light went off in his head when he saw I wasn't reacting to the noise.
In those instances when she cowers, don't acknowledge it. im not saying walk away and leave her there, but maybe busy yourself with something else around her, dust a table or pick up leaves outside. Once you see her coming around do some upbeat OB training to get her confidence up.

Have patience grasshopper....lol

 Quote: Angela Burrell

 Quote: Jo Harker

Now, ANY suggestions on how I can help this little dog begin to trust me?

 Quote: Jennifer Mullen

time.

Absolutely. Apart from everything you have been doing, the only thing ELSE you need to do is give her TIME. And not two weeks, or even a month. I would say at least six months.

Yes. I keep forgetting that part. It was so wrenching to see her like that. I have only seen it on TV never witnessed it with my own eyes. She was terrified.

 Quote: Wendy Lefebvre

Hey Jo,

Now, don't take this the wrong way, but touching her when she was in the cowering state (imo) might not have been the best thing to do..... Trust me, I know it's hard to not comfort or touch them when we see our four legged kids are in distress, but it just enforces to her that what she is doing is a good thing.

I broke my rule. You're right. But, at the time, all I could think of was trying to get through that cloud of fear. I admit I am lucky she didn't bite me. And, it put way too much pressure on her to resist biting and allowing me to touch her while in that state. Your advice about doing something else and ignoring her is right.

 Quote: Wendy Lefebvre

Have patience grasshopper....lol

Yes, Master

 Quote: jennifer mullen

In terms of building trust - I may be missing something, but I honestly think a lot of it is time. Time, and positive activities together. Keep being there for her, being calm, being her partner and her leader, and I think it will come. It takes awhile for them to settle and other issues she has will just layer on top of that.

The only other thing I can think of - I did this build Luc's confidence when I adopted him, b/c he was fairly overwhelmed with a completely new, non-caged environment, and I still do it, is I picked on things that he was good at and that he enjoyed (hiking, running) and we did those lots. No pressure, but we'd get out and do them and enjoy them, and I was always full of praise and really positive so he knew that he was doing a great job.

It built his confidence, but it also taught him that I would always be there for him, and help him through the tougher stuff (creeks - he was terrified of water; sticks; he was scared of them too, and a myriad of other little random things), and that we'd do the tougher stuff together and that he could do those things successfully. He learnt to start looking to me during things that were more difficult for him and then he learnt to just do them.

Which, maybe blah blah blah, but can you do something similar with Lucy? Maybe some fun tracking to take advantage of her nose? Stuff that you can do and work on together to build a partnership/trust, and that will also build her confidence.

Sound advice. So, boost her confidence with things she can do, then lightly stress her with what triggers her, but show her I can handle the stress so she doesn't need to, and reward for calm and confidence--however slight. Great!

Scent box or tracking---I was holding off on that until some level of obedience was attained, but I might play hide and seek in the house. Outlet for her, bonding, and winning the "prey" might boost her confidence and bring our bond closer.

Once she has a bit more trust in you agility lessons are another great confidence booster.

Could she do simple agility with a luxating patella? Right now her rear left knee luxates and sometimes she falls on her face from her front legs. (Am having her "fetlocks" checked as well). Vets say no neurological damage so maybe
A) She's clumsy (altho I don't see that)
B) She has physical issues
C) She is getting hung up in the lead...could be possible. She has a great reach when she trots.

She is active so agility (simple) no jumping and only in the back yard would be fun. I think though, I am going to take one thing at a time. I will introduce her to agility, scent, and tracking, and which ever she loves the most, she REALLY will have to work for and which ever she likes least (and she will like them all) will be for fun and obedience.

Edited by Jo Harker (03/13/2009 06:58 AM)
Edit reason: Added a paragraph

You could do simple step-over jumps, a tunnel if you can get or make one, and a flat board on the ground to walk on (this is what I do for starter agility stuff for my dogs.) It will be no impact, safe, and still fun!

You could also teach her to go touch a target on the ground, then come back for a treat! The target could be something such as a frisbee or a piece of paper. My pups are learning this now and they love it.