My 3 year old male gsd gives a good initial bite, but then will shake his head and ultimately let go and then just hang around the decoy. He hasn't always been this way. I wonder what caused it and, more importantly, how to correct it.

One trainer suggest I tie him to a bungi cord to get him to stay with the bite.

Your input is most needed and appreciated. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

There could be a whole slue of reasons why the dog is coming off the bite. Almost all of which can usually be solved by revisiting foundation prey work.

Frustrate the dog to ensure that at the time you allow a bite he is in high drive, allow fewer bites per training session, make sure your helper isn't doing anything that is pushing your dog to much.

You also might want to think about the thrashing and evaluate whether or not you have done anything to reward that behavior rather than the calm grip and bite INTO the helper. If the dog was rewarded with the sleeve when he thrashed and pulled rather than countering into the helper or striking/pushing into the helper you may have created a problem where he does the normal thing and isn't winning so gives up in frustration or comes way down in drive.

But like I said, there could be all kinds of reasons.

Where is your dog at in training?

I don't like using bungees, but I know that they can work in some instances. Not sure if they work when the dog is comming off the sleeve. Usually they are to build a hard deep strike and grip. You could do the same thing with a long line to keep back pressure on the dog when he bites to see if that helps, but if you have been correcting the dog with a line that becomes a problem.

Thanks Robert. Unfortunately when I got this dog I knew next to nothing about protection dogs and methods of training. The "trainer" I ended up with trained only in defense.

I will say that at one time he did bite hard and he stayed with it. It's just recently that he started this thing of biting hard, thrashing about and then releasing.

Giving him the sleeve was never a part of his training and so I don't think that's going to do the trick. Perhaps somebody here has some experience with these types of dogs and might be able to give me some ideas on how we can correct this bug in his biting.

The next time I get a pup I'm going to make sure this trainer adheres to the prey before defense approach.

Thanks again Robert and anybody else who can help out. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Russell, I may be way off base,but have you checked the dog for any physical problems such as infected ears, sore tongue, sore tooth, etc. Aches and pains aren't all ways obvious.

Debbie

Regardless of the type of training done with the dog so far I feel that you and your dog would be better served to do the activities described by Robert. He’s right there are many reasons why you dog may be letting go of the sleeve. Developing the prey aspect of the dog is simply part of the bigger picture. Having a dog that is balanced in prey and defense will make you a much better dog. I’m not sure why a trainer would only develop defense in the dog even if the dog is being used just for protection. I would say that style of training is somewhat archaic. Developing prey drive in your dog won’t make him any less protective. If he is like most mals he’ll take to it right away.

Perhaps the decoy can do a few pass bys (near misses) to get the dog really worked up. On the last pass by do a short runaway (15 ft) while you maintain steady pressure on the lead but move forward with the decoy. At the end of your short pursuit allow the dog to make the bite. Have the decoy slip the sleeve as soon as the dog bites it. This may blow his mind at first. When the dog gets the sleeve immediately move him around in a small circle. Don’t worry this won’t take his attention away from the man permanently. When the dog releases the sleeve have the decoy agitate the dog with no equipment and run away. Out of site would be preferable.

After a few sessions slipping the sleeve right away. The decoy can hold onto the sleeve and even fight with the dog. The idea is simply that the dog will maintain the grip because he has expended so much energy to get it. The pursuit has increased his desire to hold onto the prey.

These types of exercises will really stimulate the dog. You will see his confidence increase exponentially. Allowing him to win the sleeve for a while should not be seen as a set back or counterproductive. With proper decoy work he can stay focused on the man.

I agree with Robert that you need to go back to the foundation work, even if you have an older dog.

If the foundation work is not done correctly or rushed, you will see issues pop up later on. Is there a helper in your club that works with the puppies and is a good training helper?

Foundation work is not working on the sleeve per se, work on the leather and work on the bite. "drives bys" will not teach a correct, full and hold on bite.

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"drives bys" will not teach a correct, full and hold on bite
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A drive by would kind of be a last resort wouldn't it? Sorry couldn't help myself

Sorry...work term. What I meant was to hold off on the near misses and work on the grip with the leather and puppy work.

You may want to teach a carry as well, after you do a lot of prey work. Helps keep the dog relaxed in work.