WH wrote 05/21/2002 11:43 AM Giving the ball up #20935 - 05/21/2002 11:43 AM
WH Webboard User Reg: 04-18-2002 Posts: 9 Loc: Offline	I'm looking for some suggestion on how to solve a couple problem I'm having. My 14 month old female German Shepherd has alot of ball/ prey drive. I can put her in a sit/stay, and throw the ball. She will stay and focus in on were the ball has landed and stopped at. I will then wait and then give her the command to go and get it. She goes and gets the ball and return back in front of me. This is where I have a problem at she will be chewy on the ball and when I reach for the ball and I give her a command out she will at times lock down on the ball and does won't to give it up. Any suggestions on what I can do to solve this?
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Pete Felknor wrote 05/21/2002 11:49 AM Re: Giving the ball up [Re: WH ] #20936 - 05/21/2002 11:49 AM
Pete Felknor Webboard User Reg: 07-13-2001 Posts: 495 Loc: Deerfield, WI Offline	I had this problem with my butthead male GSD. Before going to compulsion (pops with a prong, etc.), see if this works: Just say "aus" or "out" and keep a firm grip on the ball. Even if the dog is chewing (but watch your hands <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> ). Show the dog that you are ready, willing and able to stand there until hell freezes over until such time as she is ready to release the ball. The INSTANT she releases, throw the ball for her. "Good out!" (even if it wasn't... you get the idea). Here you are using the dog's intelligence to allow her to figure out that the more time she spends with the ball in her mouth, the less time she is going to spend playing. It's up to her. This worked like a charm for me... hope it works for you too. Pete Felknor
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David C.Frost wrote 05/21/2002 12:07 PM Re: Giving the ball up [Re: WH ] #20937 - 05/21/2002 12:07 PM
David C.Frost Webboard User Reg: 01-23-2002 Posts: 1204 Loc: Nashville, TN Offline	WH Working with a lot of dogs with unbelieveable drive has taught me a couple of pretty good techniques for removing the ball. First, remember, any behavior that is reinforced is more likely to occur again. So you have to make sure that when you are removing the ball, the dog is not "having fun" thinking that the removal is part of the games. The technique I have found most succeessful, quick and easy to apply is simply, when you grab the ball, place your other hand across the dogs snout, take your thumb and put pressure on the dogs lip, into the teeth, give the command to release, whatever you use, and apply pressure to the gum till the dog releases the ball. When done quickly, it's over very fast and the dog soon learns to release the ball on command. Of course praise when the dog releases the ball. DFrost Any behavior that is reinforced is more likely to occur again.
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WH wrote 05/21/2002 12:18 PM Re: Giving the ball up [Re: WH ] #20938 - 05/21/2002 12:18 PM
WH Webboard User Reg: 04-18-2002 Posts: 9 Loc: Offline	Thank's for the reply, When I get a grip on the ball she's not chewy at this point but a lock down grip and she will start to tug and will sometime counter (lookout fingers). I then have to grab the collar to stop the tugging. All this time I still telling her to out. What I end up having to do alot is pull on her collar and the ball until she outs. Followed by good out and throw the ball again for her and we end up going through the process again.
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Melissa Blazak wrote 05/21/2002 12:36 PM Re: Giving the ball up [Re: WH ] #20939 - 05/21/2002 12:36 PM
Melissa Blazak Webboard User Reg: 03-15-2002 Posts: 591 Loc: Southern Ontario Offline	I am not personally familiar with GSDs, but would the 2 toy method work? You know, dog returns with toy, say "Out" "Drop it" "Give", etc. while beginning to show other toy... Dog drops toy in mouth...Owner throws other toy, etc. My dog is a retrieving fool and it worked for him.
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Angela Washburn wrote 05/21/2002 12:41 PM Re: Giving the ball up [Re: WH ] #20940 - 05/21/2002 12:41 PM
Angela Washburn Webboard User Reg: 12-27-2001 Posts: 459 Loc: Brooksville, FL Offline	I'm having the same problem with my male. 2 toy doesn't work. I have seen a tug, ball both in mouth, doesn't out (luckily he still does on the sleeve) Had to use hotdogs to get them back. Anyway, did this last wk at training. We're going to try rewarding with tug/ball less. Seems as he's rewarded more during the routines, he gets more into it or knows it's ending and then won't give it up. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> Angela W. Vom Landholz GSD's http://www.vomlandholz.com
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cnielsen wrote 05/21/2002 02:26 PM Re: Giving the ball up [Re: WH ] #20941 - 05/21/2002 02:26 PM
cnielsen Webboard User Reg: 12-07-2001 Posts: 52 Loc: Offline	What does the dog do if you don't try to take it? Run off or hang around waiting for you to try? One of my dogs had this problem where he would drop the ball for me but when I reached for it he would grab it and take it again, wanting to play tug or get chased. So I would turn my back and refuse to pay attention to him until he would drop it and leave it alone. Only when he left it completely alone would I throw it again. This isn't quite the same situation as what you guys are dealing with, but maybe withholding attention could work for you? Just a suggestion. To get something out of a dog's mouth that they just won't drop, I do the same thing as someone mentioned above - squeeze the top of the snout. Works very well.
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Mike Taylor wrote 05/21/2002 03:22 PM Re: Giving the ball up [Re: WH ] #20942 - 05/21/2002 03:22 PM
Mike Taylor Webboard User Reg: 07-25-2001 Posts: 142 Loc: Offline	Try using Pete's method, but make it easier on yourself by using a tug or jute roll that you can hang on to. Just stand calmly until the dog finally outs, then throw again. If he drags you around, backtie him. If he presists in biting your hands when you know damn well he knows what he is doing, put a prong on him, backtie him and run a line from the prong through your legs (frontwards). Have a helper work the prong and correct him, hard, if...and only if...he bites. DO NOT prong him to get the out. This will take several sessions, but it will give you a fast, happy out.
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Pete Felknor wrote 05/21/2002 04:47 PM Re: Giving the ball up [Re: WH ] #20943 - 05/21/2002 04:47 PM
Pete Felknor Webboard User Reg: 07-13-2001 Posts: 495 Loc: Deerfield, WI Offline	Thanks for the update, Ikor... I neglected to mention that when training my own dog with this method, I quickly abandoned the ball for a tug (tired of bandaging the web between thumb and forefinger on a daily basis...) Pete Felknor
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Angela Washburn wrote 05/21/2002 10:12 PM Re: Giving the ball up [Re: WH ] #20944 - 05/21/2002 10:12 PM
Angela Washburn Webboard User Reg: 12-27-2001 Posts: 459 Loc: Brooksville, FL Offline	Thanks for the suggestion Ikor! Staying on the field for 15 min trying to get him to out, prong on, lifting him off his feet, only pisses him off and makes him hang on that much longer. I don't fight him with the tug, just hold onto it so I can snatch it when he outs. If I fight him, he does try to circle me. So I will def. try your suggestion! Angela W. Vom Landholz GSD's http://www.vomlandholz.com
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