Jesse Donnenwert wrote 08/05/2009 06:40 PM Too much protein? #249184 - 08/05/2009 06:40 PM
Jesse Donnenwert Webboard User Reg: 01-26-2009 Posts: 3 Loc: Wisconsin Offline	I have been reading this message board for the past 5-6 months and continue to appreciate all of the expertise from the posters. I have a 5 month old GSD who is doing awesome. Currently, I feed him Orijen 1 cup three times a day. I supplement with salmon oil. I just got off the phone with my breeder, who yelled at me for feeding Orijen as apposed to Iams. Her basis being that "organic" kibble provides too much protein which results to rapid growth which can harm a puppy. Secondly, she states that "organic" kibble does not contain bacteria that the puppy needs for normal digestion. She recommends that I feed Iams with raw hamburger in oder to decrease growth and maximize digestive bacteria. Sooooo, obviously this contradicts the concepts of this message board. I am wondering if I am doing things wrong or are her concerns are valid? I know that raw feeding is my next step and totally agree with the concepts behind that approach to nutrition. Thanks guys!
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Anne Jones wrote 08/05/2009 06:53 PM Re: Too much protein? [Re: Jesse Donnenwert ] #249185 - 08/05/2009 06:53 PM
Anne Jones Webboard User Reg: 04-29-2004 Posts: 3825 Loc: Northeast Offline	My pups have been raised on raw & this allows them to grow in a slower steadier rate without the bigger growth spurts that are seen more often with kibble fed dogs. Most people that feed kibble to large breed dogs, switch from puppy food to adult dog food around 6 months of age in order to try to keep the pup growing slowly & more steadly. This is better for their skelletel systems & keeps their weight growth a bit slower. It may also have aid in prevention of pano. I have no knowledge about organic vs other kibbles. But look at the ingredients on Iams. I wouldn't feed that to any dog that I own even if I fed kibble! As far as the bacteria, feed some yougert or probiotics...problem solved. MY DOGS...MY RULES
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Connie Sutherland wrote 08/05/2009 07:08 PM Re: Too much protein? [Re: Jesse Donnenwert ] #249187 - 08/05/2009 07:08 PM
Connie Sutherland Moderator Reg: 07-13-2005 Posts: 31571 Loc: North-Central coast of California Offline	Quote: jesse donnenwert ... I feed him Orijen 1 cup three times a day. I supplement with salmon oil. I just got off the phone with my breeder, who yelled at me for feeding Orijen as apposed to Iams. Her basis being that "organic" kibble provides too much protein ... Secondly, she states that "organic" kibble does not contain bacteria that the puppy needs for normal digestion. She recommends that I feed Iams with raw hamburger in oder to decrease growth and maximize digestive bacteria. ... If you are quoting this person accurately, then this person is giving extremely uneducated opinions. (So uneducated, in fact, that I wonder if maybe you misunderstood the "organic" part.) But anyway: "Organic" has nothing to do with protein percents. I strongly recommend against Iams, period; like Anne, I consider it to be a junk kibble. * And finally, I strongly advise against feeding raw meat and kibble together. I'd probably ask the breeder very politely to put her comments into an email so that you could review them and not have to try to remember them. Then I would probably summarize them and post back here. Some of it is same-old-bull, but the "organic" thing is bizarre. New in the BS parade, and bizarre. * Iams - Original Puppy Food Ingredients: Chicken, chicken by-product meal, corn meal, ground whole grain sorghum, ground whole grain barley ..... Three grains in the top 5 ingredients ...
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Connie Sutherland wrote 08/05/2009 07:33 PM Re: Too much protein? [Re: Connie Sutherland ] #249192 - 08/05/2009 07:33 PM
Connie Sutherland Moderator Reg: 07-13-2005 Posts: 31571 Loc: North-Central coast of California Offline	P.S. Welcome to the board!
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Jesse Donnenwert wrote 08/05/2009 07:37 PM Re: Too much protein? [Re: Connie Sutherland ] #249193 - 08/05/2009 07:37 PM
Jesse Donnenwert Webboard User Reg: 01-26-2009 Posts: 3 Loc: Wisconsin Offline	Thanks for the reply! "Organic/all natural" kibble is her main problem. Specifically she stated that the amount of protein in this form of kibble can be harmful because the puppy can grow too rapidly. Also, she states that "organic/all natural" kibble does not have acidophylus! WOW! These are her exact concerns!
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Connie Sutherland wrote 08/05/2009 08:49 PM Re: Too much protein? [Re: Jesse Donnenwert ] #249196 - 08/05/2009 08:49 PM
Connie Sutherland Moderator Reg: 07-13-2005 Posts: 31571 Loc: North-Central coast of California Offline	Quote: jesse donnenwert Thanks for the reply! "Organic/all natural" kibble is her main problem. Specifically she stated that the amount of protein in this form of kibble can be harmful because the puppy can grow too rapidly. Also, she states that "organic/all natural" kibble does not have acidophylus! WOW! These are her exact concerns! Neither "organic" nor "all natural" has anything at all to do with protein amounts or with acidophilus. Organic means just that, and all natural means just that. As far as the questions about more protein in Orijen and no acidophilus, Anne answered those above. Also, I see here http://www.pethealthandnutritioncenter.com/store/product/orijen-dog-food-trial-size-1lb/ that Orijen does indeed contain "dried Lactobacillus acidophilus." It sounds as if this person may be throwing around some terms that sound good or something. It's strange to think that "organic/all natural" somehow dictates protein amount. JMHO. Most important line in your post: "I know that raw feeding is my next step and totally agree with the concepts behind that approach to nutrition."
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Nora Ferrell wrote 08/05/2009 08:53 PM Re: Too much protein? [Re: Connie Sutherland ] #249197 - 08/05/2009 08:53 PM
Nora Ferrell Webboard User Reg: 02-10-2008 Posts: 727 Loc: Kentucky Offline	Welcome to the forum, Jessee. If you are going raw, I'm sure you can see from reviewing posts for several months that you will get a lot of support and good advice. Connie is our in house guru. You will be thrilled with the outcome for you and your pet. I don't have a big dog and she was six months when I got her, so growth spurts was not something I had to worry about. But the satisfaction you and your dog will get from raw will be great for the both of you. Read all you can and ask any question. It may seem complicated at first but it really is no more complicated than feeding your self.
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JessicaKromer wrote 08/06/2009 12:45 AM Re: Too much protein? [Re: Nora Ferrell ] #249206 - 08/06/2009 12:45 AM
JessicaKromer Webboard User Reg: 10-28-2006 Posts: 991 Loc: CA Offline	Welcome! Keep in mind also that it is not really the high protein, as many of us feed raw meat which by its very nature IS high in protein. It is more the calcium/phosphorous ratio that need to be addressed and balanced. If your puppy is doing well on it, then I see no reason to switch to a lower protein kibble. It is one of the higher quality kibbles out there… The next step up is straight raw! :wink: Jessica
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Angela Burrell wrote 08/06/2009 07:18 PM Re: Too much protein? [Re: JessicaKromer ] #249296 - 08/06/2009 07:18 PM
Angela Burrell Webboard User Reg: 05-10-2006 Posts: 2273 Loc: Ontario, Canada Offline	Jesse, You might be interested to read this link. It says that there is absolutely NO harm in feeding a high-protein diet to puppies and even provides proof (studies). I think it will directly address your concerns. Maybe you can send this to your breeder, as she is probably telling all her puppy customers to buy grain-laden, inferior food. http://www.dogaware.com/dogfeeding.html#protein
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