Hi,

New to Leerburg, have read all the Q&A and such. Ed mentions "a correction" and sometimes "a level 10 correction" What is this? Please don't suggest I buy the obedience tape, I've been laid off and can't afford it right now. Ed suggested I join the boards and ask you folks.

I got Shelby from the local humane society at 12 weeks. She was found in the woods alone. As near as the vet & I can figure she's part blk&tan shepard, part rottie, part who knows. But she is elegant (her ears have been up since I got her, nice trot and posture) sweet and she is really smart and great w/people and other dogs. At 7 mo she has sit, stay, down and drop it immediate. She walks "right here" often w/o leash, but I don't push that where we may encounter other dogs or people. She is almost 100% on "come" even when playing w/other dogs.

On the occasions when she doesn't come, I calmly walk after her, get her and walk her back saying "come" firmly. When we get to where I'd originally called her, I praise her. I love the joy on her face when she does respond and comes bounding to me, but it is very important to me to have a 100%, turn on a dime, right now response to "come." At 7 mo, is she just too young for that or do you think "correction" may be just the thing to bring the message home?

Nadine

The situation that you talked about, if I'm getting you right is that off leash she is not 100% on the recall or "come".

I think you are ahead of yourself and your puppy is very sharp, you have done a good job but in order to get a 100% recall you have to go in stages. I'd suggest training the dog on leash, in this way the dog can not decide not to come. You simpling guide the dog back using a treat or verbal and manual petting to praise the puppy. You will see a big difference in how quickly the puppy comes back to you once this is 100%. Then you can start on your off leash "come", because of the conditioning that it feels and taste real good to run back to mommy, she will be close to that 100% recall that you want.

But mind you no dog are 100% all the time, I can remember numerous horror stories of a well trained and expensive dog that the owner ignored for a second and the dog took off after a cat, the cat made it across the street but the Champion pedigree dog didn't. Hit by a car and killed, lesson learned here is always keep a leash on your dog.

My dogs I've called them off running deers, dogs, possums and stupid people so their recall is about 97%, I have a problem with running cats in an open field, if I can catch them before they start their charge they will stop, but if their in full stride their gone. And I'm thinking damn I should have had a leash on them. We walk late at night usually I let them run off leash in the park 1-2:00 am nobody but us and the animals in the woods most time. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

On level correction this is a very opinonated area here some people have only two levels attention getting and hard discipline. Other people like mentioned have 10 levels, then there are others that have various levels. This doesn't really matter as long as it it works, its mostly just technicail terminlogy used in dog training field.

Here a breif diagram of level 1-10 correction.
Of how I view it. I'm not a pro trainer.

1-4 Attention getters you have the dog in a sit and want him to look at you. He looks off or stands.

5-7 The dog knows the command and is ignoring you.
Or the first time it starts pulling on leash.

8-9 The dog repeatly ignores or pulls on leash or you stopping the dog from barking or attacking the family cat.

10 - The dogs barks at a kid, The dogs not getting it when you give a 5-7, 8-9 correction and he keeps pulling on leash, or growling at people or wants to chase cars or whatever serious offense you wnat to stop now. I've seen this correction flip a dog on its back, usually you only have to do this once for this offense. It should be a repeated of potentially dangerous action you are trying to stop.

You want to be fair, but remember 1 good correction is better on you and the dog then 100 verbal or nagging corrections. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Level 9-10 is almost like being called to the wood shed, back in our day. That would be called child abuse now days, but it worked. That's another subject and more of my wrap humor, board members don't bitch a hessy. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

A correction is anything that stops the unwanted behavior.

A potential pitfall of using corrections to train the recall is that if the dog associates coming to you with getting corrected, you will weaken the behavior of coming to you.

I would do what you're doing except leave out the part about saying "come" firmly. Just leash her up in a neutral fashion. She will learn that when she comes to you, she gets a big party, and when she doesn't, nothing all that great happens.

You might consider using a long line. You can make one out of a length of lightweight nylon cord, tied securely to a snap hook. Clip it to her collar at the same time you attach her leash before you take her out, and just leave it on and let her drag it around when you take her off leash. She should forget she has it on. You can use the long line to enforce the recall.

Something that I have found in the past is that the dog might see you holding the leash in your hand and not want to come back because they don't want the fun to end. So what I'll often do is play with the dog after leashing them up; while holding the leash in one hand, play a nice game of chase and tug with the other.

Lisa wrote - Something that I have found in the past is that the dog might see you holding the leash in your hand and not want to come back because they don't want the fun to end.

My reply - Thats not the case with my dog after a 1.5- 2 mile run or jog, it doesn't matter if they are 40 yrds away or 5 feet away, if I click the leash clamp they come and sit i fron t of me, if I'm standing still or walk along side me to be leashed. This is something that they trained themself to do, but I'll take credit for it. The female better at this then the male.

Every situation and dog is different, making the dog feel like I get to play mom or dad is a good way to make leashing more pleasant.

But sometimes like mentioned they condition themself, they except lifes consequence (were going home). I usually feed them when we get home. That might be their reward.
<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Okay Don, that may not be an issue for you. It has been for me, and it's probably not too uncommon, so I thought I'd throw it in there. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Another difference, I don't feed my dogs right after strenuous exercise; I make them wait for a couple of hours. Don't want any GDV.

Don and Lisa,

Thanks so much for the words of advice and encouragement. Still not sure what a correction is, seems to be just how hard you yank on the leash/lead causing discomfort from the prong or choke collar?

Don, I started Shelby on leash in the house w/all commands. She was real indifferent to food and treats of all kinds for the first 6-7 weeks after I got her. This is good in the sense that she is a praise puppy. She is very good at stay, I’ve worked up to even going outside and she stays, tho sometimes she will lay and not stay in sit but I don’t call her to task on that. I also have her trained to never go out the door ahead of me and to wait until I give permission for her to go out.

Lisa, for Shelby the leash is a good thing; it means we’re going walking. We have 12 acres and she has the run of the place so a walk is special. It is ¾ mile to the mailbox and when we walk to the mailbox or go off property we go on leash and work on “right here,” walking head up at my side. Every time I stop she must sit, this is now an automatic reaction for her. Taking into account her attention span and willingness to do right, sometimes I take her off leash to practice “right here” or I may say, “OK!” with a good pat to her side – this means she is on her own, no expectations from me, smell everything. Then after we go on a bit I have her “come” and “sit” and then we go “right here” again, sometimes with, sometimes w/o the leash. No punishment, its just my call and either way lots of praise. We go hiking, too and again, sometimes she is on, sometimes off leash, depends where we are.

Again thx for your responses. Don, I will take your advice and continue to work on the long lead to re-enforce what a good thing an immediate come is. Thx!

ps Lisa what's GDV?

Nadine wrote - Still not sure what a correction is, seems to be just how hard you yank on the leash/lead causing discomfort from the prong or choke collar?


Yanking on the leash is not a proper way to do a leash correction. Its called a pop, you have slack in the leash and snap you elbow back like cocking for a punch. There are a number methods to get that snap and release effect, this is just one.