Dear Connie: Thank you for the adivse you have given me re: Cody who has suddenly gotten afraid (after one of of walking with joy) in the Lowe's parking lot. We have started way back on step one, the car ride. He loves the car but gets stressed as we turn the corner and sees the shopping center. Our beginning strategy is this, go to the lowe's parking lot, drive right past it,go to the fast food place Archibalds and get him a side of sausage,(this may change) and go back sit in the Lowe's parking lot in the car- window down so he can hear the noises, and feed him a sausage. Then we go home. Hoping he will connect Lowe's with sausages or something good.
I hope this will help him. Does this sound like we are on the right track, are there any hidden pitfalls I am not seeing?
THanks sharon

I don't know. My question is: Is that spot outside his range of reacting to the shopping center?

Counter-conditioning for me is best done in combination with desensitizing, and depends very much on the way the stimulus is presented or arranged. That is, if the dog is not first outside his range of reactivity, then the setup is not right for me.

Whether I'm desensitizing or desensitizing with counter-conditioning, I would always start where there is no fearful response.

Introducing desirable food at a point where the dog is already showing fear could trigger unforseeable results. For one very basic thing, it would be rewarding fearful behavior.

JMO. I'm not an expert. My own desensitizing/counter-conditioning projects have been clear in my mind (step-by-step plan) before beginning, and have always started (step 1) at a point where the dog could be comfortable. Too many unknowns and unmeasurables for me if I don't do that.

I thought about this a little more after I logged off.

I think I'd drop it. For now, based on the severity of his reactions described earlier (like trying to get to any car that looks like yours to escape the shopping center), I think I'd put this all to one side for a while. I wouldn't want to risk making his happiness about the car rides tainted with anxiety about where the car was going.

I know that you're not aware of a traumatic trigger, but there was one, for him. I think I'd probably accept his reality (real fear, very strong fear) and not force him close enough to generate that response. That's too fearful of a response for me to want to evoke deliberately to work with it. JMO. And not knowing what the trigger was as well as not having a good way to work outside the trouble circle -- too much.

I'd pick another place. Then in a few weeks, I might try going past the entrance to the bad shopping center and making no move to enter, and see what happens then. (If it wasn't so awkward, my own starting point with the bad shopping center would be at a point in the road before he can see it and become stressed. Obviously, highways and exits aren't really set up for that.)

Sharon,
You still haven't tried a different location!!!???
Is it the Lowe's location or just anywhere there's a lot of activity? It'd help if you had some kind of handle on the problem.
I'd advise you stop thinking the dog is going to get over this all by himself.
Heck, I might even just forget going to Lowe's altogether if that was the only place there's an issue. But you don't know.....I'd find out if I were you.

Yes, we have taken him other places, and he is the same way. I think I mentioned that in my emails earlier last week. I have no illusions he would get over this by himself, if I did I would not be trying to help him.
WE do not have neighborhoods near us to walk him in. WE walk him in shopping centers and he had loved it until whatever freaked him out happened. I have no idea what it was, I was with him the whole time and nothing ever happened. By that I mean no bad encounters with man or beast. So, we are trying our best to help him. I want him to conquer his fear and build up his confidence. So, we will see what happens.

WHen we turn the corner and he sees the shopping center, he gets tense. When we pull in to Costco, he is relaxed and not that bothered, it is when I venture toward the Lowe's parking lot he doesn't like it.
I did try another place - although it was another parking lot, that is what we have around here. Our neighborhood is called the grove, we have no sidewalks and most people leave their gates open and their dogs come out the yard when you walk your dog past their house.
So, we have decided not to walk in our area. The shopping center is around the corner. Once I took him to a park and he totally freaked out. So I am at a loss.
I understand what you are saying. I would not want to reward him for behavior I want to get rid of. So, I will scout around for a different place to walk him. Thank you for your advise, I greatly appreciate it. Sometimes I can be shortsighted and need someone out side the problem to tell me what they see. I value your opinion.

I remember how frightened he becomes, but I am now confused about a couple of things in the two threads.

When we pull in to Costco, he is relaxed and not that bothered, it is when I venture toward the Lowe's parking lot he doesn't like it.

Then why not use the Costco lot?



I did try another place - although it was another parking lot

And what happened?



I just want to add: it's true that the basics of desensitizing are pretty darned simple. But, for me, it starts with a zero response zone. And counter-conditioning (very often paired with desensitizing) has more components, some of which are tricky. The goal in counter-conditioning is to change the response to the trigger. You don't know what the trigger is, and you aren't even sure that the dog knows exactly what it is. Teaching the dog a new response to it then becomes (for me, anyway) loaded with potential backfires, with what you now know.

So my first move would have to be to spend a good amount of time with the dog just outside that trigger area, or to regroup and find a different place entirely for a while. Hence the questions above.

 Quote: Sharon Empson

I have no idea what it was, I was with him the whole time and nothing ever happened. By that I mean no bad encounters with man or beast.

If his fear were more generalized, I'd say it could simply be inheroted. These temperament issues often rear theirheads sometime during adolescence. This is why the better guide dog programs won't partner a dog and human until the dog is at least 18 months of age. Often something will trigger the first reaction, which the genetics predisposes the dog to. The trigger could even be something you would think innoctuous.

As for dealing with it, I can't improve on Connie's suggestions. They are just what I would have said.

Be aware that fearful temperaments, can never be cured, only managed. Under stress, the behavior that you thought gone forever, might return.

Good luck!