Hi,

It has been a few months since I have posted. We "had" made progress, so I thought.

Brief history (bf's (M)Jack Russell - Dog Aggressive/Dominant and my(F)Boxermix - Dominant) have not clicked well at all. We have bought I think, every DVD possible from Ed to help us with this situation, eCollars, bark collars, dominant dog collars and followed the pack structure program (so we thought). I had trained the Jack Russell in obedience and he has done very well. (Sit, down, stay). We have watched and read the dominance and aggressive dog dvds a few times now taking from it notes about how to approach situations.

We had over the last 2 or so months, started the slow introduction. They passed the "ignore each other in the kennels". They passed approaching each other slow.... in fact, the JR licked the Boxer/mix in the mouth the other night. We ended on that note with some feeling of relief that we are heading the right way.

Then, last night... The boxermix walked by the JR and right after she went passed, he lunged and grabbed her side, and she turned on a dime and well, you can imagine what happened next... thank goodness for leashes! She wasn't even looking at him and was completely ignoring him.

What on earth happened? I thought licks in the mouth were signs of submission. I thought we were making some progress. Where did I go wrong? I didn't see the signals. He was fine until after she got right passed him. I just don't get it. Why can't I break him of this! (I just feel like I am losing it and I am lost)

We are going back to square one with the JR now (on a leash, in the crate, on the leash potty ...) I am even willing to call a trainer in here (I just have spent so much money on this dog's problems and I am getting tired).

Perhaps this is our life - I don't feel I can ever trust this dog.

I need guidance on where to go with this. I know people here have been in the same boat at one time or another. What do I do? Retrain him or call someone in?

Thank you for your support

Often times when dog have had fights they will never be able to get along together. I would just keep them seperated or possibly rehome one. It is just a matter of time before one of the dogs, most likely the JRT, gets the bad end of these fights. Dog aggression is very difficult to fix. In most cases the best you can hope for is that they will eventually be somewhat desensitized to some degree & tollerant from a distance, but that doesn't mean that they will ever live in total harmony. Or that they will ever be trusted without supervision & vigilance on your part. I believe that Connie has done alot of this & she will chime in on this. Sorry that all the work you've done hasn't worked for you.

Thank you Anne. I honestly would rather here exactly what you said than to hear that he can be fixed and then to be disappointed if another fight broke out down the road. Thing is, I know it will happen and I know now, that this can't be fixed, but perhaps, be controlled.

It truly is discouraging. We are going to try another way to work on this and get someone to come to the house and figure out what is causing this aggression. My beliefs are that it is territorial, I think his owner (my boyfriend).

It is so frustrating, it almost makes me teary eyed.

We are starting over though, until we get someone here to evaluate the situation. In the kennel, no eye contact, out of the kennel, on a leash, back in the kennel. Whatever it takes.

Thanks again! It is helpful to hear from people that will be straight shooters about this problem.

I wouldn't be teary-eyed (except for the work you have put in). Remember this reply to your first thread?

 Quote: steve strom

.... I'd skip all the alpha beta stuff and go straight to separate and rotate. I bet thats where you'll end up anyway.

I'd go back to that thread and take to heart the "separate and ob-train" posts.

Dogs who live this way can do just fine. It's only us who might think it's mean. Mean is dogs living in anxiety, constantly revved up, never relaxed and secure ....

I've had to do this, and so have others here.


You have had the situation only what? two or three months or so? I'd be working on pack structure with each, separately, loads of ob work, plenty of bonding with each.

You might well reach the point where you can walk with one on each side of you, and you'll find lots of support here for the "keep them moving and focused on the handler and the road ahead, not each other" protocol.

Do you have the pack structure video and the first of the marker training series? Where are you with the basic ob with each dog?


PS
Breathe. This is not only not the end of the world, but it's a doable situation once you revise your expectations.

JMO!

 Quote: Anne Jones

Often times when dog have had fights they will never be able to get along together. I would just keep them seperated or possibly rehome one. It is just a matter of time before one of the dogs, most likely the JRT, gets the bad end of these fights. Dog aggression is very difficult to fix. In most cases the best you can hope for is that they will eventually be somewhat desensitized to some degree & tollerant from a distance, but that doesn't mean that they will ever live in total harmony. Or that they will ever be trusted without supervision & vigilance on your part. ....

Ditto to all. And this is not at all an uncommon situation.

Some can be changed. Others truly hate each other and it would be a very uncomfortable life if they had to live together. If it's dragging you down to the point where you no longer enjoy your dogs and dread spending time with them I would start trying to rehome one of them. It might take awhile to find a home you trust to handle the dog correctly but it's worth it. It took me nearly a month and a half to find a rescue for my young and sweet terrier mix. A rescue might take you as a "foster home" or courtesy listing to help you find a home.

Sometimes a second pair of eyes can see something you missed. If you have a good working breed(boxer, GSD, etc.) rescue around they might be able to give you the name of a good trainer.

Hi Connie.

I have most every DVD there is except for the advanced items, including the pack structure and dealing with dominant and aggressive dogs and dog obedience as well as remote collar training and a couple of more. The pack structure dvd is the first one we watched. I have watched it numerous times and have definitely figured out that points need to be taken from all DVDs to really make things come together.

With Basic Dog Obedience,

The JRT can now sit, down stay And come. He could never do this before. I have succeeded well in that area.

The Boxermix has been OB trained since she was little with the help of Ed's video. She is extremely respnsive and loves training.

They have both graduated to ecollar training. The one I have trouble with, with all of them, is the stand command. We are getting there though.

I think the problem here is also me losing my confidence in making this work and losing complete trust and confidence in his JRT. The JRT has been snappy and growls at me when I correct him even 4 months later. He did it just this last Sunday when I corrected him not to jump on my boyfriend.

If the JRT is outside (because we have done the separate and rotate) and my golden and boxer are playing inside, he comes up to the window and constantly barks and barks. I don't get this behavior but I know it isn't play bark.

I know that is my problem, my attitude. I just feel like I am at my end with working with him and am disliking him more and more every time he acts like this. I mean, I can't be effectively training him if I really do not care for him right now. Thats so bad to say, but it is what I am feeling right now, at this moment. Tomorrow, I will be better. I will be pumped up to make it work.

When I first got my golden and boxer, I worked really hard to avoid having an aggressive dog because I grew up with a dog aggressive dog and people aggressive dog. And now I am marrying into that situation. When I got my boxer, the first thing I did was find Ed and I swore I would never let her get attacked. We don't do dog parks, ever. I took everything he said to heart and I feel like I failed my boxermix when she got attacked again by this dog.

Thank you for the support. Gosh knows I need it right now. Cathy, I hope I can enjoy the JRT again. I really do. Unfortunately, my bf will not rehome him so I have to rebuild the attitude to love him and love the idea of separating and rotating. Oh fun.

Hi Jessica, firstly good for you for sticking with this.

I have two questions for you.

1. Is your boyfriend on board with all the training and work you have been doing?

2. What exactly was the Jack Russel doing when the boxer walked past him? Was he laying on a coveted bed or rug, for example?

Hi Angela,

Thank you. I am going to watch all DVDs again and truly just start from square 1. What do I have to lose. See, different day different thoughts.

He tends to be very supportive but strays from it from time to time. I have to remind him of things, even with my dogs, which I know he takes wrong sometimes. He did even recognize that before he was introduced to Ed's training, he always looked at his dog as a "buddy" ann an equal. He never realized that he was creating a bad situation and that he accepts he created this problem. He has tried... he just isn't as demanding as I am of the structure. I just don't feel it. I definitely feel like I do not let the dogs walk on me even a little.

The JR actually was standing right before he lunged. He didn't lunge from the down position. Stupid error on my part... we should have made him down but the second he got up, she was past him and we didn't act fast enough.

Now the JR has a swollen face where she had hold of him. We are bringing him in to the vet.