 Re: When Do You Step In?
[Re: Debbie Bruce ]
#263108 - 01/23/2010 09:02 PM |
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Reg: 03-01-2009
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For me, standing by and letting a dog bite a kid just because I don't want to offend someone is not something I will do. But then, I give riding lessons so I have lots of practice being the authority figure and telling people how to do things.
If the dog will listen to you, I would correct the dog when he shows aggression to the boy, I would also warn the boy that the dog is likely to bite him and give him advice pertinent to the situation.
Then, if you are very bold, you could ask the dog owners: "So when your dog finally bites this boy do you think his parents are likely to sue you?"
And then wonder aloud to yourself: "Hmmm, I wonder what kinds of fines and court cost there are in dog bite cases?"
And then you turn to the dog owners and ask them "Are you thinking about just getting a cat after this dog is gone?"
This is called peer pressure.
We need more of it in the world.
You would never be invited to my home again and after the cat comment you'd hear "why don't you get your stuff and get out of my house, now". This would be completely counterproductive to your goal. You can intervene without being rude and risking the loss of a friend.
I seem to remember all this teaching about how to ignore peer pressure from when I was a kid...
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Re: When Do You Step In?
[Re: Scott Garrett ]
#263124 - 01/23/2010 10:52 PM |
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Reg: 01-25-2003
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Loc: Idaho
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There are a lot of good points being made here, and this involves human dynamics along with canine behavior, as several posters have pointed out.
Me? If I saw this type of potential for harm I'd probably bite the bullet and just never return to that house again, no matter what - it's an unsafe situation and I wouldn't want to be part of it, period. And the primaries involved have already displayed a lack of common sense that would be difficult to overcome, plus they'd likely be resentful about any suggestions.
Sadly.....the bite is going to be the educational tool, and that is just a shame. 
Eventually, that friend might notice that I was avoiding coming over, and maybe they'd ask me why.
I wouldn't tell the friend my reason for me not coming over anymore unless they *really* pressed me for an answer, and then I'd point out the reality of the situation.
Maybe I'd lose a friend, and maybe not, but I'm not going to be part of a situation that is best avoided.
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Re: When Do You Step In?
[Re: Scott Garrett ]
#263126 - 01/24/2010 01:09 AM |
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Reg: 08-23-2007
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Loc: Centralia, Missouri
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For me, standing by and letting a dog bite a kid just because I don't want to offend someone is not something I will do. But then, I give riding lessons so I have lots of practice being the authority figure and telling people how to do things.
If the dog will listen to you, I would correct the dog when he shows aggression to the boy, I would also warn the boy that the dog is likely to bite him and give him advice pertinent to the situation.
Then, if you are very bold, you could ask the dog owners: "So when your dog finally bites this boy do you think his parents are likely to sue you?"
And then wonder aloud to yourself: "Hmmm, I wonder what kinds of fines and court cost there are in dog bite cases?"
And then you turn to the dog owners and ask them "Are you thinking about just getting a cat after this dog is gone?"
This is called peer pressure.
We need more of it in the world.
You would never be invited to my home again and after the cat comment you'd hear "why don't you get your stuff and get out of my house, now". This would be completely counterproductive to your goal. You can intervene without being rude and risking the loss of a friend.
I seem to remember all this teaching about how to ignore peer pressure from when I was a kid...
I don't need friends who don't see a problem with letting their dog get aggressive with kids. I think that protecting kids is more important than not offending the offending party.
I would rather say something (starting with nice/subtle, moving on to stark/obvious if necessary) and have them not listen, than to say nothing and then have someone seriously hurt later, when a warning may have prevented it.
Sometimes peer pressure is a good thing, such as pressuring others not to: do drugs, drive drunk, abuse their kids, cheat on spouses, abuse their animals, or let their animals get aggressive with kids.
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Re: When Do You Step In?
[Re: Debbie Bruce ]
#263133 - 01/24/2010 08:52 AM |
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Reg: 10-29-2009
Posts: 610
Loc: SouthWestern PA
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One word comes to mind in dealing with situations like this: DENIAL.
Chances are, even if you laid it all out for those people, they would think that little Fluffy would never be capable of something like that.
Maybe I'm just jaded from years of working in the pet industry with people and the little monsters they've created...
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Re: When Do You Step In?
[Re: Katie Finlay ]
#263144 - 01/24/2010 10:05 AM |
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Reg: 09-22-2007
Posts: 2531
Loc: S. Florida
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Katie, go here: Dog Bites and Kids, under emails and photos of dog bites, and print out some of the pictures that Ed has posted and some of the emails that people sent in. Color printer, if you have one...
Warning, some of these are gruesome.
Present it to the owners and as diplomatically as you can, tell them that you are sure that they wouldn't want this to happen to anyone in their home, especially a child. Then suggest the easiest solution, which is to keep the dog outside when guests are over.
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Re: When Do You Step In?
[Re: Will Rambeau ]
#263146 - 01/24/2010 10:44 AM |
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Reg: 03-01-2009
Posts: 645
Loc: NorCal
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There are a lot of good points being made here, and this involves human dynamics along with canine behavior, as several posters have pointed out.
Me? If I saw this type of potential for harm I'd probably bite the bullet and just never return to that house again, no matter what - it's an unsafe situation and I wouldn't want to be part of it, period. And the primaries involved have already displayed a lack of common sense that would be difficult to overcome, plus they'd likely be resentful about any suggestions.
Sadly.....the bite is going to be the educational tool, and that is just a shame.
Eventually, that friend might notice that I was avoiding coming over, and maybe they'd ask me why.
I wouldn't tell the friend my reason for me not coming over anymore unless they *really* pressed me for an answer, and then I'd point out the reality of the situation.
Maybe I'd lose a friend, and maybe not, but I'm not going to be part of a situation that is best avoided.
Great reply, Will.
A lot of times it just comes down to the "average dog owner" that's quite honestly clueless about how bad their making their own situation. When I talk about pack structure to a lot of people they just laugh. One former friend of my wife went so far as to say "it's just a freakin' dog, what do you honestly expect?" Those people are just going to think what they want to think because they aren't interested in learning or they drank too much koolaid.
I don't need friends who don't see a problem with letting their dog get aggressive with kids. I think that protecting kids is more important than not offending the offending party.
I would rather say something (starting with nice/subtle, moving on to stark/obvious if necessary) and have them not listen, than to say nothing and then have someone seriously hurt later, when a warning may have prevented it.
Sometimes peer pressure is a good thing, such as pressuring others not to: do drugs, drive drunk, abuse their kids, cheat on spouses, abuse their animals, or let their animals get aggressive with kids.
I agree with the first sentence but, I disagree with pretty much everything else in this reply.
I would rather just mind my own business and not put myself in that situation again. I completely agree with Will on that, though our motivation is likely different.
As far as peer pressure, I have a strong dislike for double standards and, no disrespect intended, don't find it to be a mature mindset. I also firmly believe in personal responsibility. You cross a given line you pay the consequences but, your choice is your own. It's how I was raised.
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