Quote: Connie Sutherland

Some of us (including myself) have indeed worked successfully with basket cases whose fear was other than genetic.

Having seen sad genetic fearfulness can make it hard to even assess, never mind want to work with, fearful dogs.

But genetics is not the only cause. Abuse, learned fear, lack of socialization, etc., are causes that aren't necessarily combined with genetics at all.

 Quote: LucilleHollander

Connie could you please say more about genetics? Are y'all saying some dogs are genetically prone to being fearful?

How would you evaluate a dog to decide whether the fear was nature or nurture? If training mellows the dog out and it gets past its fearful behavior, would that mean that it might have been a non genetic event?

 Quote: aimee pochron

Lucille great question, can't wait to hear the responses.

It is my understanding that dogs breed by a dog(s) that are nervy, fearful, aggressive have the potential then to be nervy themselves and that you can work/train them to perform but that it is hardwired, meaning it will always be a challenge for the dog and the trainer. Their offspring has potential to display that trait as well. The environmental stimuli can either either improve or worsen the genetic characteristic. It is what they will display as a default under stress, etc. reagrdless of lots of positive environment stimuli.

I'm not sure you can determine in an adult with unknown history if it is genetic or learned response.

Interested to hear what others with more expiernce on the topic can clarify about this....

I readily admit that the way my last venture went affects my POV for ages afterwards.

I'm no pro ... just someone who evals shelter "problem dogs" and sometimes gets it right. I've worked with basket cases who seemed to me at the beginning to have not inborn but "acquired fear," and have had some hard-won success with "producing" balanced dogs.

Whether you can help isn't even strictly defined by whether the fear is wired or acquired, either. Maybe the nervy dog can be managed and live a happy life; maybe the dog with only acquired fear that's very deep cannot be helped enough.

It's a huge topic. I do know that level of commitment is not the sole yardstick.

JMO, though, and we certainly have lots of folks here with much more experience in many more venues.


eta

It's a good topic. I'm always open to ideas on this topic, which, as it happens, is one of my major interests. I get huge satisfaction from "plain old" desensitizing as well as from more serious fear work.

Of course, that interest, too, may cause me to be more positive in evals. Who knows. But don't let me understate the heartache and disappointment inherent in this kind of work, not least of which can come from unrealistic hopes/expectations that might cause us to plow forward without enough thought, maybe, about what's in the dog's best interest. I never want to be the reason for a dog living in terror to be forced into even more anxiety by someone whose intent is to help the dog.

The thread this one originated in just did not sound to me like a hopeless case (or, in fact, a "wiring" case) -- at least as much as we can read on an internet thread.


Edited by Connie Sutherland (08/15/2010 01:50 PM)
Edit reason: eta

The only dog I ever turned down to move into our forever home was a male that was put in the system r/t a domestic abuse situation. I visited him several times before deciding it wasn't a good fit. He would cautiously approach me, but he just had the coldest eyes. I am not comfortable with dog to human aggression and it just wouldn't have been fair to any of us. Someone else took him bond and determined to save him and shortly after he bit to the stomach and neck. For him, could have been wiring, environmental or both but it didn't end well for either the person or the dog.

I find it interesting that when people adopt dogs, because of the behavior the assumption is always the dog was abused and then that becomes the excuse for accepting undesirable behaviors.


I do feel for those that eval rescues and have to make that call, rehab or otherwise. As well as all of the planning involved into breeding to produce stable pups.

Maybe it doesn't matter if the behavior presenting is wired or
acquired just what can be done to find balance and quality. It is still interesting to hear the experiences and solutions to manage and provide quality to the family/dog.