I have a 6 month old female plush coat GSD, named Lela. She's a huge baby, weighing 83 pounds! She is a great dog; so sweet, very smart...my pride and joy! I also have a 4 y/o female Lab/Boxer mix, who was trained out in OK using a prong collar. She's a well behaved dog and listens really well.

The baby has such a thick neck, and thick fur, and the prong collar does not seem to affect her much. She knows basic commands (come, sit, down, stay, wait, etc.). Someone suggested using an E-collar to continue with her obedience training. Is she too young? Should I try a different method first?

She's just starting to act more like a GSD, in the sense that she's becoming more protective and more hard-headed. I feel like I need to re-enforce our pack structure, and let her know that when I say to back off of something, she will. I have not been able to find a trainer out here (Memphis, TN area) that seems to know anything about GSDs. Dose anybody know of a club or even a private trainer that's worth the time and money? Most of what I've found here are Petsmart type classes (no, thank you), and people who want to come to your home to do private training. Suggestions?
Thanks!

 Quote: rachel fuller

I have a 6 month old female plush coat GSD, named Lela. She's a huge baby, weighing 83 pounds!

Welcome to the forum, Rachel.
83 lbs. is a big 6 month old for sure! You can easily feel her ribs under all that coat?

 Quote:

The baby has such a thick neck, and thick fur, and the prong collar does not seem to affect her much. She knows basic commands (come, sit, down, stay, wait, etc.). Someone suggested using an E-collar to continue with her obedience training. Is she too young? Should I try a different method first?

Have you tried marker training? I use an ecollar in my training, but I like to teach a dog as much as possible with marker training before using the collar.

 Quote:

She's just starting to act more like a GSD, in the sense that she's becoming more protective and more hard-headed. I feel like I need to re-enforce our pack structure, and let her know that when I say to back off of something, she will. I have not been able to find a trainer out here (Memphis, TN area) that seems to know anything about GSDs. Dose anybody know of a club or even a private trainer that's worth the time and money? Most of what I've found here are Petsmart type classes (no, thank you), and people who want to come to your home to do private training. Suggestions?
Thanks!

Can you describe the behaviors that make you think she is becoming more "hard-headed?"

IME, pack structure can be reinforced easily with most young dogs by controlling resources. Have you heard of NILIF (Nothing In Life Is Free)?

Hi Konnie. Thanks!
Yes, she is a huge baby, and very healthy. Through her thick coat you can easily feel her ribs. Our vet is very pleased with her progress, says she's totally healthy.
We did marker training early on, for her basics. She responded to it well, but only when food was involved. Her trainer at the time told me to start weaning her off the food rewards, and just use verbal (or touch) praise. I may have not done it correctly, or did it too early. She can be off leash out in the front yard, or out hiking with me, no problem. She does listen very well, EXCEPT when she feels like there is something she must protect me from; i.e. another dog, a stranger, etc. That's part of the hard-headed, GSD behavior.
I have been using the prong collar on her now every time we walk, and it seems to be more effective. I ordered Ed's DVD on ecollar training, to see if that's something I want to pursue, and to make doubly sure that I'm doing it correctly.
Any suggestions?

"Responded to it well, but only when food was involved".
Hard to say but you may have been using the food as a bribe instead of a reward. "IF" that's the case then the dog has no incentive for working.
No reason any dog has to be weaned 100% off of food reward. It should become random to keep the dog guessing.
Dogs aren't "hard headed".
What your describing could be stress and insecurity.
To much distraction for the level of training also. Add distractions slowly.

 Quote: rachel fuller

We did marker training early on, for her basics. She responded to it well, but only when food was involved. Her trainer at the time told me to start weaning her off the food rewards, and just use verbal (or touch) praise. I may have not done it correctly, or did it too early. She can be off leash out in the front yard, or out hiking with me, no problem. She does listen very well, EXCEPT when she feels like there is something she must protect me from; i.e. another dog, a stranger, etc. That's part of the hard-headed, GSD behavior.

Hi Rachel,

A few thoughts... A six month old puppy is not protecting you from anything nor is she being "hard headed". This is partly leadership / pack structure which takes time and consistency to develop, and partly lack of training.

Marker training, when done correctly, is a very, very effective training tool. (I don't work for free and honestly don't expect my dog to either... if he isn't getting something out of the deal, what motivation is there for him to be engaged with me?) I strongly encourage you to read the free ebook on this site and watch some of Michael Ellis' free streaming videos and perhaps order the marker training video and give this method of training some serious, daily effort. Think about what you said above "it worked very well but only when food was involved". The food is the reward - the motivation for your dog. If she is willing to work for you and is willing to learn - for a reward, why in the world would you not capitalize on that fact?

Ecollars are great - I use one and love it. But I don't recommend using it for "foundation" training of a pup, but as a back up/reinforcer once the skills are trained. If your pup isn't listening to you under distracting situations, this is a training issue - not something which will be fixed by a different collar.

For what it is worth, at her age, I'd never leave the house without a fanny pack of treats - ones she really loves. When walking and you see another dog approaching or a person, BEFORE she engages/starts barking get her focus on you and so some obedience work (sit/down/look/etc...). You need to be more exciting/entertaining than the distraction. Praise like crazy, make it fun, etc... (The behaviors you are asking for should be ones she has learned under no distractions ie: in the house, then her own front yard, THEN you begin adding the distractions).

Again, she isn't being hard headed - she just isn't throughly trained yet (and she couldn't be - she is only six months old so I'm not being critical of you!). Everything you do with your dog is teaching her something - so make sure what she is learning is behavior you want. If you don't want her barking at dogs and people = TEACH her what you do want.

I love the video: Establishing Pack Structure with the Family Pet

http://leerburg.com/308.htm


It really helped me with some of the questions you have.

I bought
Establishing Pack Structure with the Family Pet
and
Your Puppy 8 Weeks to 8 Months DVD
and
Basic Dog Obedience DVD

I also own all the Michael Ellis videos.. They are great too

I agree with ALL of the above - let her be a pup, use the marker training and ditch the "work for a pet or a prong, you choose" method and when that pup matures you will have an awesome dog!

At this point, she is too young to be able to understand everything. If you don't want to carry food with you everywhere, teach her to tug. I teach my girl new commands with food using a mixture of luring, shaping and capturing. Then once she is doing the command reliably and it has been named, I start practicing with using the tug as a reward.

Everyone has to start somewhere, so don't feel like we are hammering on you. This is an awesome board with a LOT of experience that people are willing to share. Take advantage of the ebooks, articles and videos too!