I think there was a loss in translation, after rereading my posts, maybe I wasnt clear in what I wanted / ment to say. Hey, where human. When I say crate, I am speaking in regards to the rear of a patrol car. Not a crate / kennel at home. The original goal with this was to increase the dogs suspision of people, and get rid of the need for equipment to be exhibited prior to the dog alerting. Like I said, this dog was trained prior to me recieving the dog, and the dog used to only alert to a decoy with a sleeve, or in a suit. The dog is super social, but not awefully territorial in my abscence. So with helpers razzing the dog, then running off, it caused the dog to bark, and engage the decoy, helper, whomever from the back seat. The down side was when we went to train, and a shutzhund club was there. He wanted out of the back seat so bad, he hurt himself in the process. We are trying curb this ACTIVE aggression, but keep the bark.
I can see why the dog is now frantic to get out... It sound like (to my very 'green' knowledge base) that this would should NOT have been done in the car/crate. You taught him to act like that, and reinforced the behavior. Now your telling him he can't behave like that.
I have NO idea how to fix, or lessen this problem, so I'll stop now, and hope some of the experts drop by again.
David C.Frost Webboard User Reg: 01-23-2002
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Loc: Nashville, TN
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Quote: joshua mercer
Frost:
this is a bi-product of standardized training. Atleast for the trainers I work with,
I don't like the behavior, nor expected this extreme of behavior, it is a behavior I have to shape, and deal with quickly to prevent it becoming an imprint. Barking in the crate was the goal, scratching and biting is a serious bi-product of that goal behavior. We knew that this "could" happen, We are working to fix what this dog does, and will use any method that works to prevent injury to the dog.
A bi-product of standardized training? Well, perhaps it's standard with you and your trainer. It's not standard with those I know. You frustrate a dog and then put him in defense, with an expectation of making him bark in the crate? Yeah, I can see where he'd become unruly in a crate - or urinate uncontrollably. What's worse and even makes me more angry at myself for even starting in this thread is; you say you knew this "could" happen. Well sir, I know I'm an old dog trainer, but I've really tried to stick with a philosophy of: It's easier to train a correct behavior than break a bad habit. At any rate, it's obvious, as you say, you'll do anything to fix this dog. I wish you good luck. Actually, I wish the dog good luck.
DFrost
Any behavior that is reinforced is more likely to occur again.
steve strom Webboard User Reg: 03-17-2006
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Its tough to comment with anything useful Joshua. You created it. It reads like you took a social dog and turned him into some kind of junk yard dog to put on a big display in the car.
As long as you're hunting around for a fix, you should try something besides beating him up anymore. Take him out of the car at training. Try different things with distance and some calm control away from the car. Who knows what may work. You have a more of a rehab project now than a partner.
Joshua,
It wouldn't be to hard to find a trainer to help you out. There's too much wrong to fix on the net. At least, I'd try and lose the defensiveness and heed D Frost's advice, he's been a dog trainer since the late 1800's and has seen a lot of different situations. He's not a wannabe, he actually selects dogs etc.
Sounds like you took a confident dog with high thresholds and made a mess of it. A confident dog doesn't need to go batshit in the back of the car.
Not understanding working a dog in defense doesn't make you a bad trainer, not learning from it absolutley will.
I wish you and the dog well and hope you get a handle on the training. When I read posts like this i'm always thankful for the few trainers that I know and respect that I can call for advice.
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Re: Digging and Chewing in Crate (Working Dog)
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and has seen a lot of different situations. He's not a wannabe, he actually selects dogs etc. 
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