Hi all,

I'm looking for feedback here. From what I've read, many of you don't mind the whining, but it's definitely NOT something for which I want to give positive reinforcement. But here's the problem...my pup (4 months now) one day started whining somewhere between the "yes" and the treat, and it caught me off guard, so I went ahead and gave the treat, but I ended the training. However, like all "bad" habits, it seems like that's all it took. (yes, really, only once, I swear! LOL) Now whenever I try to train, it's VERY rare that he doesn't whine. It's almost like he's decided that is part of what he has to do. "I sit, she says 'yes', I whine, I get a treat." Ok, so there are other times than just the once...I've practically got the treat in his mouth sometimes, and in that instant, he whines, and it's too late for me to not treat him, so he gets positive reinforcement no matter how much I try to not reward the whining. He's quicker than me, sadly. Again, I know he's a pup, but I DO NOT want to reinforce whining. So what do I do? How to stop this from happening, short of just not training anymore? Ideas?

I would work on a "quiet" command. It is hard to explain on a list but what I would do is in taking your sit example is this:

Me: Sit Fido
Fido: (sits)
Me: Yes! (moves treat in a closed hand under the Fido's nose)
Fido: (whine)
Me: Uh Huh, Quiet
Fido: (is quiet)
Me: Good Quiet! (opens hand and makes treat available)

In the beginning, you are going to have to be fast on the draw with releasing the treat. If Fido is quiet for a split second - reward immediately. Timing is essential hence having the treat close by to prevent rewarding a subsequent whine.

This is like teaching attention. The dog learns in the beginning phases of attention training that looking at you earns a reward - even if there is a treat right in front of their nose. Here, the dog learns that silence earns a reward.

Now as you note, your puppy is young. I would do quick short sessions and a brief release of the dog after he is correct to limit the amount of stress and to keep it fun.

Anyways, this is just my opinion so take it with a grain of salt :-)

Have you given any thought to changing your marker word and starting all over? (perhaps it's the word that she is associating the whine with?)

Time to start teaching focus.

Boy, my guy could have started that too -- except his choice of vocalization was to growl instead of whine, which lead to an immediate NOPE -- but it was just luck!

The unintended training is really easy to slip into....

 Quote: Betty Landercasp

Boy, my guy could have started that too -- except his choice of vocalization was to growl instead of whine, which lead to an immediate NOPE -- but it was just luck!

The unintended training is really easy to slip into....

I remember that. I believe that you and your dog have resolved that, right?

The negative marker is a good point.

It wasn't just luck. You asked for help and you did the work, with a challenging dog.

 Quote: ingrid rosenquist

I would work on a "quiet" command. It is hard to explain on a list but what I would do is in taking your sit example is this:

Me: Sit Fido
Fido: (sits)
Me: Yes! (moves treat in a closed hand under the Fido's nose)
Fido: (whine)
Me: Uh Huh, Quiet
Fido: (is quiet)
Me: Good Quiet! (opens hand and makes treat available)

In the beginning, you are going to have to be fast on the draw with releasing the treat. If Fido is quiet for a split second - reward immediately. Timing is essential hence having the treat close by to prevent rewarding a subsequent whine.

Betty, I agree with you and Ingrid that adding a "nope" or similar when whining is offered might be the way to go.

Thanks to everyone! This helps. I didn't know if it would be confusing to him if he responded to a command, and then I ended up telling him no because of the whine. I do still have to get into the focus training, but I couldn't quite get the food video yet because of a money hiccup, and I really have no idea on what I'm supposed to do to build focus yet. LOL I'm just a beginner. :-) But I love to see what CAN be done with dogs.

Whining is bigtime different from barking or growling. I'm convinced they don't know they're whining vs barking or growling which they're definitely aware of. It could be nerves or as in your case anticipation of the "next" thing. I've tried everything from clickers to EXTREME corrections on my female and nothing worked, and let me tell you, she's the whinniest bitch on the planet, lol. It dawned on me one day that she couldn't stop herself and I was sick of correcting the snot out of her so she became the obedient happy house dog. She's 10 and still whines but not as much. I'll never keep another whiny dog though.

Alan,
I'm sure you mean of course you'd never allow a whiny demeanor to continue.
But would work to cap that behavior from the beginning.

If my dog isn't learning, I'm doing something wrong.
Randy