Ross Rapoport Webboard User Reg: 07-24-2010
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A story my brother told me got me thinking. He observed a mature dog at his training group that had come from a top breeder, and has been to top-rated schools on both coasts. The dog's behavior was scary to say the least--it would not out during bitework, despite the hardest physical corrections from the trainer and high-level e-collar stimming from the handler.
The trainer later advised my brother "Don't go near that dog, he will rip you apart." He also told him to make sure this dog was away in his crate before bringing out his DS puppy for training.
I asked my brother what the handler/owner's temperament was like. He said "She was pretty mild-mannered." I wondered aloud if the dog would be such a handful with a different owner, or was it simply a lost cause no matter who the owner might have been?
Ana Kozlowsky Webboard User Reg: 01-21-2010
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There have been several threads lately with people discussing "other handlers' dogs' problems". While the curiosity is understandable it seems to be a very bad taste to make assumptions and speculate about something we have no complete and accurate information about, especially when people discussed are not present. "Gloating" is the word that comes to mind.
How many forum members don't have training problems of their own?
Are bad outs a genetic or training issue? Most often it's training. No need for a different handler, only a different training approach. Sometimes, though, this could be a genetic trait.
Good point Ana. We all have our own issues to work on!
I do find the nature vs. nurture debate very interesting. Last night I couldn't sleep and ended up reading a really old thread on the forum in the breeding section. This thread was from way back when LB was a working dog forum exclusively. The whole thread was about the genetic components of temperament and aggression.
These days people act like youre a racist if you bring up the idea that a specific breed or line of could possibly have an effect on the dog that's in front of you. I think its kind of silly. Especialy when it comes to working breeds.
People through history have intentionaly honed their lines by breeding the strongest dogs to produce specific charecteristics and drives, and along with those desired traits they also end up with quirks.
You can't "nurture" what isn't there "naturally" in a poorly bred dog but with bad training you can easily crush any "natural" abilities a good dog may have.
Good training can hide a poor temperment sometimes but stress will always expose the real dog.
A dog that is sound from the start and messed up with poor training can sometimes be brought back with good training.
The dog your describing sounds like it's "probably" a tough dog (nature) that has had crap training.
he out is 99% a training issue IMO!
The "stay away from that dog" could also be poor training. The dog my not have any reason to trust anyone.
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Nature vs Nurture
#322091 - 03/15/2011 08:46 PM 
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