I also like the security that I feel when I'm walking my dog down the road,and,I do that every day and every night.I'm having a couple of thoughts after reading everyones thoughts about DeeDee's post.People have asked me if me my male Rottweiler bites, acting as though they want to pet the dog.Since everyone and every situation is different I don't have the same answer for everyone.Sometimes I say,all dogs bite,(if I don't like the way the person comes off,like too pushy,or maybe drunk,or I'm just getting a bad feeling from them)and I keep walking.I also know that when I get nervous and I shorten the leash up Rommie knows it and starts to get a little more defensive looking and also pulls against the leash.The people have always backed off,and again, I keep walking.I then tell him to "leave it" and expect him to return to a more relaxed walk.Others have mentioned control, and I fully agree.You as the handler need to be able to either alert the dog or turn him off.Unless someone physically attacks you your dog shouldn't decide when it's the right time to bite.While your keeping him under control tell the unwelcomed visitor he does bite and they need to back off.I also believe that unless you were truly attacked in someway the Schwann man would sue and win.How could you prove otherwise?He would have bites to "prove" his accusation and you would only be able to say that he "looked" threatning.I'm not trying to "side" with the Schwann man, I've had some pushy or otherwise dunb people do the same to me.Thats why I like to be able to turn Rommie's more aggressive look and stance on by just tighting up on the leash.Last, be VERY carefull about who you have train your dog in protection work.Very few do it well,if its done wrong the dog gets ruined. good luck, Ken Mathews

I think everyone agrees that if you can't control your dog and/or read him you and he/she shouldn't be out in public where others could get hurt. My own husband was bitten by a GSD several years ago. He was jogging on a country road (we are verry rural here) and he saw and young man walking a shepherd up ahead. Knowing that shepherds have a rep for the unexpected he crossed to the other side of the road. He said that as he grew closer he noticed the shepherd glancing at him out of the corner of his eye, but pretending not to be intent on seeing him.

As soon as he jogged even with the dog it lunged and got away from the boy and ran towards him. Before he could do anything the dog had grabbed his calf. The boy took off running (home probably) while Tom yelled at the dog. When the dog saw the boy running it took out after him.

We had to get Tom 23 stitches and gave a police report. They could never find the kid or dog in question and I wonder if anyone has been seriously hurt by this animal.

Another friend was riding his bike in town and saw a shepherd with an elderly gentleman. From 15 or so yards back he yelled coming up behind you, keep the dog back. The old fellow looked back and stepped off the sidewalk. To make a long story short the dog got away from his master and drug Joshua off his mountain bike, biting both legs and a forearm before the owner pulled him off. The insurance covered the med bills, and Josh didn't want the old guy to lose his dog so he didn't press charges.

These type of stories illustrate the importance of not just having your dog on a leash, but UNDER COMPLETE CONTROL. If you dog bites, put him in a muzzle or keep him home. I carry mace with me in case any dog get close to Tyr and I. I warn all folks approaching without their dogs on a lead to keep their dog back. I see way to many aggressive dogs allowed to roam free and bully kids and other dogs. SHAME ON THOSE FOLKS.

But, way to many stories such as these can be told and far to many of those stories concern GSD's. They are a great dog, but needs lots of traning time and energy.

Although our pup has never nipped anyone, I would never leave him unsupervised anywhere--it would be asking for a disaster. Once they learn to nip and bite and see that it works to scare people and another animals, it becomes terribly difficult to get them to be reliable again.

Nice post Linda,with the increase of working breeds that people are buying, and Americans often think bigger is better the stories you related are also increasing.I have received two calls from people lately that are asking for help with their dogs .One is an Akita and the other is a Caucasion Ovcharka.Both dogs are expected to mature into animals over 100lbs.While I believe that brawn is NOT the only factor that conveys your leadership to your dog, I have serious doubts that either of these people could stop a 100lb dog that was serious about going after another dog or person.Also as you mentioned, it all happens in the blink of an eye.In a situation like that you will be held liable for the damages has done.Moral and financial. It amazes me how lax people can be with dogs who have been bred to protect.I've told both these people that what they have chosen bears the responsibility of constant and forever vigilance, as well as much socialization and training.One has already let the dog go out to play with the children,totally unsupervised!Hopefully, I convinced her what the consequences could be for other people and the dog itself.
Ken Mathews

Ken: I couldn't agree more. We have two Caucasion Mountain dogs in our area and they are huge and quite protective. That is a breed I wouldn't want to mess with (130 lbs or more). Another breed that seems to be an "in thing" is the Anatolian Shepherd. There are quite a few in our area and one incident of an adult being bitten while punishing a child (dog protecting child). The problem with these two breeds is that they genetically are programed to make decisions without human intervention. Both breeds often spend weeks with herds of sheep in the mountains without human contact and have to act independently. Quite a handful for even an accomplished dog owner!

I saw an advertisement in a dog magazine for Caucasion Mt. dogs that said, "All the power of a 45!" That said it all--I wonder who they were hoping would purchase their dogs!

I have read several articles on the Anatolian Shepherd and they are one of the few large breeds that can run 25 to 30 mph., leap in mid air and do a near 360 degree turn on the the back of an animal chasing them. They are now being used in game parks in Africa to protect species from poaching. Amazing animals to read about and it takes a lot to set them off. But, once they decide to go off you can't stop them.

Larger is not better with aggressive breeds. I can't imagine even beginning to control such an animal. They have their uses and it isn't living in a city with a small fenced yard. Just the potential liability makes me shudder!

Ken and Linda I think it all goes back to training, socializing and what you train the dog. Some people think that getting a dog to bite is all there is to training a protection dog. Alot of people think buying a dog from a working or police line is all there is to getting a protection dog. Bite work teaches the dog to look for "YOU" to determines when, "YOU" think the dog such act, or the type training scenarios "YOU" train, decides when to act. Sometimes you want the dog to setup a boundary around you.

I've seen some 20-70yrold women/mens, wheel chaired or blind people that have very well trained, GSD that can be controlled/walked through a crowd of strangers. Yet if they are conforted by aggressive people the dog takes on a different mood. These near helpless people like this feeling of protection. Most have other training (not the blind) and back up for their team. A dog can't and shouldn't be required to do it all.

I don't know what a lot of Execellent/Pro trainers know, I know what I can expect from my dog before, during and maybe while a attack or aggressive action is in process. So far their responce has been almost just what I want.

We can walk through Pet Mart full of dogs and people, Parks full of dogs, kids, jogging, bike riders and Cheering people, We walk through the neighborhood Apartment complex loaded the same way. Now its not like walking a poddles we don't get "ole the how cute", we get "nice dogs or dog" as they get out of the way. Some people stop and talk with are without a dogs. This was started since they were 3 months old. Dogs like people need socialization, but they also need to know when its time to take care business. I feel I'm the weak link in this chain if I knew more then they would know more, right now we are happy with our acomplishments starting from 0- maybe 3 on scale of 1-10, Training skills.

I think Dees dogs responce as mentioned only needs control and training. I try to control who and how people approach me or my dogs, I've had 4-5yrs old(Grand son's friends) hug my GSD around the around the neck, he will just sigh, look at them and get up and walk away, maybe shake them off if they cling on too long (1/2 minute). He is really not the touchy cling type guy unless its me. I'm as proud of this as I am his protection instincts. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

So control and training is the key like its been mentioned not how big or bad the dog is. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

That is soo true, Lobo is the biggest dog at the complex, but it is the little foofoo(mini poodles) dogs that are the ones to really watch, they bark and attack at the drop of a hat-I don't trust them, and I personally have a very hard time "reading" their body language, I don't know if it is the size or the fact that they are always in kill mode. Their owners are constantly carrying them around and you don't dare walk past, or they will jump out of their arms at you.


Also as a quick update, we have not had ONE episode with Lobo even barking at a guy walking by this week, when I see them coming I tell him "ignore it" put him in a sit,(the opposite side the person is coming on) and have him focus on me with a treat and it is working <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> .

Dee wrote - Also as a quick update, we have not had ONE episode with Lobo even barking at a guy walking by this week, when I see them coming I tell him "ignore it" put him in a sit,(the opposite side the person is coming on) and have him focus on me with a treat and it is working .

My rely - Dee good work it seems that you have the situation almost under control, Your next step would be after proofing his respond to the "treats and distraction" training.

Start just issusing the command "ingnore it" and just walk right by the guy. If he notice the guy and ignores him then proof this. Then progress to just walking by, no command.

Then to sitting and talking with a man and the dog is in a sit alert and just watching.

It may take some time so progress slowly.