Sooooo....we have a dog that no matter what toy he has in his mouth after detection, when told to out he refuses to let go. He has been put in a heel and or down before with zero results. It's a hit and miss wether or not he will out on patrol work as well. Any advice? The only way to get the toy away from him is with extreme correction, that amps him up worse and it's even harder to get it back the next time.
Bear with me because I'm from sport and not street K9 but this can apply.
Do you know anything about marker training? Plenty of info here and some geat DVDs also.
I've seen a number of serious out problems cured with marker training. I've seen dogs hang on a sleeve for 20 mins before they finally let go the first time. Each time should get shorter once the dog figures it out.
Simply put, you lock up and hold the toy perfectly still while the dog has it in his mouth. That's key! If your fighting over the toy the dog is going to continue. Why pick a fight with a dog that loves to fight!?
When the dog tires and lets go then you immediately mark and give a rebite on the toy. NO OUT COMMANDS until the dog is totally comfortable with this or your going to pump him up again!
It may take a while for the dog to "get it" but he'll understand that it's the out that gets the reward back.
You can't reward for the out if the dog already has the reward so make the out itself a rewardable behavior.
Thanks Connie! That is similar, only he is calling the dog and sitting him before he sends the dog for the next bite. That very well might work but that's expecting a chain of behaviors before the reward and the dog is working on one bad behavior (the non out).
If the dog refuses the recall, does he get corrected for a recall refusal? Probably so but then the out he performed is meaningless.
Not a bad method IF the recall is solid!
With a toy you still have to have someone else with the toy and dog in order for the handler to recall the dog. If the toy was rewarded by the handler for a "find" he may not be so happy to have someone else work the tug for the out.
Connie Sutherland Moderator Reg: 07-13-2005
Posts: 31571
Loc: North-Central coast of California
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Quote: bob scott
Thanks Connie! That is similar, only he is calling the dog and sitting him before he sends the dog for the next bite. That very well might work but that's expecting a chain of behaviors before the reward and the dog is working on one bad behavior (the non out).
If the dog refuses the recall, does he get corrected for a recall refusal? Probably so but then the out he performed is meaningless.
Not a bad method IF the recall is solid!
With a toy you still have to have someone else with the toy and dog in order for the handler to recall the dog. If the toy was rewarded by the handler for a "find" he may not be so happy to have someone else work the tug for the out.
Oh, OK, I see what you mean. Yeah, the recall being imperfect could really muddy that up, couldn't it. And actually yeah, there are inappropriate and unnecessary "links" in the chain for the O.P. THANKS!
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Perfecting the OUT
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And actually yeah, there are inappropriate and unnecessary "links" in the chain for the O.P. THANKS!
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